VanishingPoint posted at 8:03PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229162

duanemoody posted at 9:01AM Fri, 18 September 2015 - #4229094

Be honest, at some point you thought "this can't be anywhere near as complicated as modeling cars"

Cars and aircraft are simple compared to clothing since cars don't have to conform to a human figure... though that might be an interesting model.

Thanks for the suggestion about using the Magnetize Clothing poses. I deleted them a long time ago because I never thought I'd use them, but luckily I still had the V4 Base installer file. I tried applying all of the 10 Magnetize Clothing poses and none of them worked- the mesh still breaks around the shoulder area.

It's hard to tell, but the problem you are seeing looks like the deformers for the right arm are deforming the right collar, but not the chest. So, when you move the right arm, the deformer stretches across the entire right collar, but since it will not effect the chest group, because it will not span two groups, then the mesh deform gets... borked up as the right collar attempts to follow the deformer and it's very, extremely, close neighbor doesn't know anything about where they are all going for lunch...

On V4, there are two extremely problematic areas - The Shoulders and the Thighs. The first, because there's just not much real-estate there to work with those deformers, the latter because there's bajillion-hokum deformers trying to work at the same time the standard rigging is trying to compensate for... too little real-estate. (Near the hip region.)

1. OK, there's no wire, but first you need to check the mesh. Do you have a good, dense, mesh in and around that shoulder area? Also, check the topography as that will only add to your problems if it's not lending itself well to how the region needs to deform.

2. JCM's would be a good idea, but only after you maximize the utility of the standard rigging. What version of Poser is this for? If for later versions and you're sticking with standard Poser rigging, do not forget about your options, specifically the ability to use capsule instead of sphere deformers. See if that helps, if not you can easily switch them back. Do not forget about Bulge controls. Try them out to see if they can help.

3. On "Magnetize Pose" - The reason there are a bunch of Magnetize V4 poses in the library is NOT because they are each different. They are numbered to prevent issues when using the poses on multiple figures. Every single one of them is the same, but they're numbered so Poser doesn't get confused with the scripts/crosstalk/whatever issues. Using one on the Dress is enough. However, you have to use it properly - Start a new scene, load the v4 character, load the dress, conform the dress, select the Body channel of the dress, click the Magnetize V4 pose. That's it, just one click. By the way, you can select any of the Magnetize V4 pose numbers, it doesn't matter, just so long as you don't again try to use the same numbered magnetize pose for another figure in the same scene.

NOTE: It may not be appropriate for you to transfer the deformers (even if it's just a couple) using the Magentize V4 pose for a figure for resale. Instead, instruct your customers to do so, themselves, and just use it on your end for QC and making better JCMs.

4. On Groups - Lyra's post is likely correct on focusing on grouping issues and, if nothing else seems to work, regrouping the figure may be the best option for you. To me, it doesn't look like separated/split verts,but just the standard V4 shoulder-mess with the collar groups and native deformers. If someone tried to do a straight transfer of groups, using something like Poser's native regrouping in the Setup room or an automated process, as with Autogroup Manager (standalone product) then it's likely that the group is just too small and it's not possible to get a good deformer zone with native rigging. V4's shoulders are a mess and always have been, but that doesn't mean they're impossible to model around, it just takes a bit of tweaking, depending on the geometry/topology and how much stuff you have to mess with. IMO, given blind, extend the collar zones a little bit down the arm, to allow for smother transition, as long as they are not entirely outside of the collar group of the figure, see if you can get a little more room towards the interior of the figure and then work with bulge controls and custom JCMs (after any Magnetize Pose has been applied, if you're going that route). You can try a capsule defomer, to see if that helps, too, if you're going for later Poser versions that support it. (Probably best to just cough up some blood and work on custom JCMs though. :) )

5. Don't forget about magnets! V4 is loaded with them and some very good artists have used them with extremely good effect to compensate for tough spots in very detailed clothing. (AS comes to mind. Great stuff, great use of custom magnets rigged with JCMs.)

On "arms up" vs "collars up" on V4 - When the collars are moved in the "up" position, V4's chest region attempts to follow the deformer, naturally, and this produces an unsightly bulge to either side. When the collars go down, it's a bit better, but it can cause creases in tight meshes. (Luckily, the human collar doesn't go as far down as V4's!) When the "arms" are moved up, independently of the shoulder group, that's usually not too much of an issue, but moving them down and, especially, forward can definitely be an issue, as you see here, due to the above issues already discussed.