Can anyone tell me what the advantage is of Genesis 2 and 3 figures over V4 Weight Mapped figures?I personally cannot see any difference. V4 has a lot more options available including morph fixes,materials,clothes,props,hair just to name a few.I am a Poser user but occasionally dabble in DAZ Studio Pro 4.8! Cheers

They're both troll bait?

We half to start with V3

V3 had a lot of Tri's in her topology. No good for SubD''s in main app's n not rigged for Games.

V4 all quads but Pollycount to high.Main app CGI Artist didn't like it. n not rigged for Games

V5 has main app topology ,not rigged for Games

V6 was a tweek topology n all ,not rigged for Games

V7 has main app topology n rigged for Games.DAZ has Morph3D also.

I use poser, I am heavily invested in V4, I don't do cheese cake shots, my renders are scenes and they tell a story. There would have to be a real reason for me to do things differently, Like the difference between day and night...There is no day and night difference between Genesis any thing and the version 4 figures, just more degree of difficulty in using them and yet another heavy investment of money...I am not making porn films so why would I really need such realism and cost. Yes I like the renders I see being done using the Genesis figures, but my renders are seen by most as being top notch already and I have yet to do my best work. A soon as I see a real need to use Genesis figures and or Daz Studio I will jump in, but until I get a professional job that can make Genesis worth having, I'll pass. [edited]

EldritchCellar posted at 10:56AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235214

They're both troll bait?

Lol, things never change I guess. Good response!

Lets keep this to the OP question please. Warnings will be given for those that decide to make this a flame war.

Thanks!

[edited - but I had to leave the pup to guard the thread... haha]

"Can anyone tell me what the advantage is of Genesis 2 and 3 figures over V4 Weight Mapped figures?I personally cannot see any difference."

If you can see the difference, then that's the advantage.

If you can't see any difference, then there's no advantage, other than Genesis 3 content is on the front page, and the content for the others requires a couple of extra clicks.

It's really that simple. I don't know why people keep asking this same question. If you want the community's approval for your continued use of Poser native figures -- well, I guarantee you have it! LOL.

Genesis 3 has facial rigging, V4 and Genesis 1 & 2 do not. And all the Genesis models have a fraction of the poly count that V4 has, with G3 being the lowest, in order to make it more compatible with game engines (even though it will most likely require a poly count reduction, as 17K is still considered extremely high for a nude game figure in most instances. If that's 17K with a full set of armor and weaponry, then you're probably ok).

AmbientShade posted at 1:03AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235295

At any rate, the EULA has nothing to do with the OP's question so please keep this on topic.

I know discussing the EULA is off-topic, but once an inaccuracy is introduced into a thread, either that off-topic post needs to be removed, or someone is going to feel compelled to correct it. Every. Single. TIme. LOL. There are far too many myths circulating in the community which, if believed, will severely limit the ability of the site's customers to enjoy their purchases, and if nothing else, surely the forums here are supposed to help customers, not hinder them.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'm happy with V4 and Dawn for the most part, but I use Genesis and Genesis 2 as well because it has widened the availability of certain types of content, especially for the male figures and for monster and alien humanoids. If you just render females and don't see any anatomical differences, there's nothing at all wrong with using V4 until the technology evolves so much that she no longer loads.

Ah,, yeah good point....

AmbientShade posted at 7:12AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235298

Genesis 3 has facial rigging, V4 and Genesis 1 & 2 do not. And all the Genesis models have a fraction of the poly count that V4 has, with G3 being the lowest, in order to make it more compatible with game engines (even though it will most likely require a poly count reduction, as 17K is still considered extremely high for a nude game figure in most instances. If that's 17K with a full set of armor and weaponry, then you're probably ok).

The reduction in polygons and facial rigging is for compatibility with animation, not game engines, per the designer of genesis. This is another misconception that needs to be cleared up as it keeps being brought up. Would you need facial rigging for a game engine? (well you could for a cut scene, but that's not the purpose) Less polys are easier to weight map and pose than a heavier figure. The quad-only structure and change in polyflow is for the same purpose as well.

This is the text of the post describing the Genesis 3 changes:

A lot of the decisions I made with this mesh are about balancing and getting away from old ideas.

Anatomy being baked into the poly flow was good for when we had more limits. Moving forward, it was better to have a lower count, an even spread better for sculpting, and a flow more suited to animation. This also relates to why it cannot have backward compatible UVs. Those material borders date from V4, and I repeatedly kept them there despite the fact that they were often detrimental to the poly-flow. It was time to move on.

The move to this weight method was an easy choice. It would be very impractical to rig that many bones in the face with Triax, which has six or more weight-maps per bone. The memory use of such a thing would be ridiculous. Single-weight dual quaternion is also a very standard method of rigging you can find in most 3D packages.

Bear in mind that almost every expression you see, has been done using the facial rigging alone. People not liking expressions is something that has been floating around for a long time; people are very subjective about such things. Now, if you don't quite like an expression - you can simply tweak it however you want.

The rest of the skeleton choices were about filling in some of the remaining gaps for articulation, and a couple were to overcome a standard limitation this rigging style has with twisting motions.

She bends so well, because she has around 130 custom sculpted corrections shaping her. Somewhere along the line 'JCM' became a bad word. It's very common to use sculpted corrections in higher-end programs. When you bend an arm in a 3D program, using only weights, you are essentially folding it half. That's not how your arm works. Muscles shift, bones change alignment - ultimately the shape changes. You have to express that shape changing to get realism and accuracy, and the most control for doing so is sculpting.

Sorry, this was a bit long-winded.

Keep in mind that Genesis 3 is not compatible with Poser ... to avoid frustration on users parts. All these figures have their advantages. V4 WM to me is the most useful because it is a figure made for Poser (and DS without the WM) without having to use the DSON importer. IF you are using these figures duel program (Poser/DS) then it has everything to do with what you are looking for in the image. Frankly even Posette (the P4 native figure) has advantages for certain image creation.

Boni posted at 8:10AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235310

Keep in mind that Genesis 3 is not compatible with Poser ... to avoid frustration on users parts. All these figures have their advantages. V4 WM to me is the most useful because it is a figure made for Poser (and DS without the WM) without having to use the DSON importer. IF you are using these figures duel program (Poser/DS) then it has everything to do with what you are looking for in the image. Frankly even Posette (the P4 native figure) has advantages for certain image creation.

Boni, but let's not make this app war, the question is the difference between the figures not the apps.

Very good point. I just meant the the figures tend to be app dependent.

Male_M3dia posted at 8:13AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235314

Boni, but let's not make this app war, the question is the difference between the figures not the apps.

How is your comment even helpful, Male_M3dia. Not a question. She's not trying to, so don't twist it into one.

I personally see no big difference either but it does depend on which program you are using. This really has been discussed to death already though.

Male_M3dia I would have thought Boni had a rather big point to make in the Poser forum if the OP genuinely asks what's it the difference between G3 and V4 in regards to it's use in Poser. Simple V4 is compatible G3 is not. I would think the OP has their answer now so time to move on.

" I don't do cheese cake shots, my renders are scenes and they tell a story. There would have to be a real reason for me to do things differently, Like the difference between day and night...There is no day and night difference between Genesis any thing and the version 4 figures,"

Here we go again...

As the person quoted above stated what story are you needing to tell with your renders??

If the story is: "I like looking at still CG renders of NSEWG's(naked ,skinny ,eurocentric ,white girls)"

then you need not bother with the genesis models as they offer you NOTHING over V4 for that Simple purpose.

As an animator however I personally find ALL of the genesis models more useful in My Sci-fi animation renders . This is due to their direct compatibility with Iclone,s Far superior, Character animation system.

Thier compatibilty with the DS lipsynch/nonlinear aniMate system, and the Ability to quickly Create Alien Races/Factions with matching uniforms that will All Autofit even the most extreme Alien body morphs . and now I can render them over in a Pro Application like C4D Via the MDD export to animated .obj feature of studio.

But as far as the G3 Female specifically?

Well I am Not one who buys into these silly named & numbered "character bundles" ("Arabella 6" ,"Bethany 7" blah blah blah)

So while I have her installed in DS 4.8 the G3 Female Offers me nothing new over the Genesis 1 or Genesis 2 Figures at this point.

3DFineries posted at 10:06AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235322

Male_M3dia posted at 8:13AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235314

Boni, but let's not make this app war, the question is the difference between the figures not the apps.

How is your comment even helpful, Male_M3dia. Not a question. She's not trying to, so don't twist it into one.

I personally see no big difference either but it does depend on which program you are using. This really has been discussed to death already though.

It's notable that the coordinators and mods follow the same instructions that they give the users. If they can't keep the app wars out of their conversations, how do you expect the users to do the same? The op asked the difference between the figures, not the applications they run in. Any comments about apps always turn into these fights and I think we all been here long enough to see this is always how these fights start.

Set an example for others to follow, and that was my point.

And yes I agree this has been done to death, and most likely deserves a lock with a link to previous conversations. The information is already out there for those to research, and the OP is already using both apps and can use their own judgement on what figure best suit their needs.

Like LPR said, time to move on.

I use both programs though am still learning both. On Genesis 3, I notice that without morphs the design looks a lot like the Smith Micro G2's without morphs. Also not sure why so many V7 characters seem to have hips wider than the width of their shoulders. That seems physically disproportionately wrong. I have yet to pick up V7 but do admire a lot of the renders. On the expressions I've been told in other threads that most are pre-made expression, not so much as added expression morphs to dial in variances.

i would use wm v4 if i understood how to transfer wm to clothes. not just in poser, in cararra's wm too.

still using standard V4 with corvas arm fixes.

MistyLaraPrincess posted at 11:21AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235345

i would use wm v4 if i understood how to transfer wm to clothes. not just in poser, in cararra's wm too.

still using standard V4 with corvas arm fixes.

In Poser you use the Outfitter script, which is free at RDNA, to transfer the maps to clothing.

I didn't know that V4WM would work in Carrara, (does it?) but if it does, one could easily convert the clothing in Poser and save to the Library

Male_M3dia posted at 11:08AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235333

And yes I agree this has been done to death, and most likely deserves a lock with a link to previous conversations. The information is already out there for those to research, and the OP is already using both apps and can use their own judgement on what figure best suit their needs.

If a question is asked in the forum they should be able to find answers not people fighting. Again, if you have anything to help this other member please post. If not, don't derail this thread so that others DON'T post to it.

Thanks!

Far as I know V4 WM doesn't work in Carrara, the weight map systems in either are incompatible. You could conceivably WM V4 with Carrara's tools but realistically Carrara's weight mapping is a feature best used in carrara native rigged custom figures. Also, far as I know, Gene 3 doesn't work in Carrara... similar situation as Poser.

KimberlyC posted at 12:30PM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235362

Male_M3dia posted at 11:08AM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235333

And yes I agree this has been done to death, and most likely deserves a lock with a link to previous conversations. The information is already out there for those to research, and the OP is already using both apps and can use their own judgement on what figure best suit their needs.

If a question is asked in the forum they should be able to find answers not people fighting. Again, if you have anything to help this other member please post. If not, don't derail this thread so that others DON'T post to it.

Thanks!

Kimberly, I believe I already did and directly from the maker of genesis himself. This should answer some of the OP's questions directly from the source to reduce the speculation and hasn't been posted in the forum before.

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2895409&page_number=1#msg4235309

Please don't quote the person that actually contributed positively to the thread, thanks.

There is also an information page about genesis from DAZ's page, and there are quite a few informational videos about genesis 3 on youtube.

V4WM was weight mapped in Poser using Poser's weight map rigging. Genesis 3 used dual quaternion rigging which Poser does not support. It also uses UDIM uv mapping which current versions of Poser do not support.

icprncss2 posted at 12:56PM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235377

V4WM was weight mapped in Poser using Poser's weight map rigging. Genesis 3 used dual quaternion rigging which Poser does not support. It also uses UDIM uv mapping which current versions of Poser do not support.

Poser 10/2014 seem quite happy reading the UDIM tokens ( I haven't tried earlier versions yet). Poser will load the textures called by a UDIM mapped objects .mtl to the correct position and it will allow the user to add or change the map in the materials tab. So that isn't a hurdle to getting Genesis 3 into poser.

MistyLaraPrincess posted at 8:26PM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235345

i would use wm v4 if i understood how to transfer wm to clothes. not just in poser, in cararra's wm too.

still using standard V4 with corvas arm fixes.

Have you tried the weigthmapped V4 done by AeonSoul? You can find it as a free download on their site I believe. It's a simple INJ file, so no conversions needed. No idea if it works in carrara tho

According to what SMS tech support told me, actual UDIM is not supported by Poser. Also the obj's mtl file is generated automatically on import. I'm not a coder so it's all Greek to me.

Hi Everyone,Many thanks for your replies.I did not want to start a war on apps.I just wanted to know the difference between the figures. I use both apps and all figures and to me I cannot see much difference between the the figures.However I have noted that with Genesis 3 the facial expressions are superior.I just wish we could have a universal figure like Genesis 3 like with other generation figures like we used to have working in both programs! Cheers

another reason to prefer V4, from what i'm reading daz making plans to encrypt their content going forward.

DreaminGirl posted at 8:54AM Sun, 01 November 2015 - #4235422

MistyLaraPrincess posted at 8:26PM Mon, 26 October 2015 - #4235345

i would use wm v4 if i understood how to transfer wm to clothes. not just in poser, in cararra's wm too.

still using standard V4 with corvas arm fixes.

Have you tried the weigthmapped V4 done by AeonSoul? You can find it as a free download on their site I believe. It's a simple INJ file, so no conversions needed. No idea if it works in carrara tho

thanks. poser wm and joint capsules dont work in cararra. >.< AeonSoul started a closeout sale.