CrystalGames posted at 5:12PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239448

So, we can presume the time you're spending in this forum is just to brag? Why are you wasting your time on us lowly Poser users?

Meh, sorry this is a to us and them type of comment. Not worth taking seriously to respond to. Please try to be constructive it will benefit us all and makes a much healthier forum environment.

AmbientShade posted at 5:14PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239449

Making genesis compatible with poser has nothing to do with making tools viable for all of us. Nothing is stopping anyone from creating content for either or both platforms. Genesis using DQ rigging means nothing in the larger scope of things beyond marketing hype. You still have to buy the alembic plugin for it to work in other apps. So what are you really benefiting from there? Alembic export is part of Poser 11 Pro. DS and Poser both import and export FBX. And with Poser fusion you can use your poser content in maya max and a few other apps, without having to buy any additional plug-ins or use any special kind of rigging. Fusion for P11 will be out soon.

While this is all very true. The viability has more to do with the broader functionality of a program, when a program has more functionality often the result is an increase in market share and stronger investment in the platform, which means higher returns for development, which leads to growth. In effect more Poser users mean more viability, fewer is less viable. Fragmentation of the user base also severely debilitates viability of a 3rd party product. The only people purchasing Pauline base products are Early adopters of Poser 11 which I would expect is a small portion of Posers greater market share. Does this affect SM? Well obviously not directly, but it may in the long term decrease their user base if content support declines dramatically. Can you please explain how Poser users wouldn't benefit from having access to a broader product range including the Genesis characters? Or why content creators wouldn't benefit from greater cross platform compatibility. Export tools are awesome but the thing that is to be exported is the key. I'm seeing Genesis 3 being ported over to a range of 3D suites. Do you expect the same for Pauline and Paul? Honestly if you don't value a content market, there is no issue for you in the trend. If you value 3rd party content you may need to learn fast to make your own. I can't see movie studio's, safety video makers being that keen to invest that much time as well as their money.

randym77 posted at 5:20PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239451

Or...can SM really afford to cater to a small minority of Poser users when they need cash elsewhere?

Like I said, if SM goes down, it will be sold off, in pieces or as a whole. If it's profitable, someone will buy it. If it's not, DAZ compatibility won't save it.

Heck, maybe DAZ will buy it. They can make it Genesis compatible, and start giving it away for free!

It's not about catering to a small minority, it's pretty clear that DS is or is becoming the market leader. Poser isn't on the edge of losing a small market share it's on the edge of losing the "market". This has begun by it's market share of the content market deflating rapidly. If Poser gets sold off, sure it may land in fertile hands, or it may be closeted as competition or just left to ring out the last few dollars from the faithful Poser users out there. I think it's much easier to make a case for a liquidated product base to face a retrograde future rather than they will usually land on their feet. As I said the chances of it landing on it's feet will be dependent on its current market share and profitability. Which we honestly don't know the exact statistics.

moriador posted at 5:24PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239453

Indeed. The site statistics show that there are a lot of users. But how many of them are like the members posting in this very thread? I guarantee that very few users who log in to Daz3d or Renderosity buy content every single time they visit. Many of those visits are gallery and forum posts, and people complaining that their coupon only gave them a 70 cent rather than an 85 cent discount.

Your right the site statistic are not conclusive by any means they are indicative of trends, compiled trends with other data offer insights into the future prospects. The difference between speculation and educated guess is data and research. Some other factors to consider are the galleries, the marketplaces what's new, Forum usage, which all offer their own small pieces of contributive data. All of these are small pieces that form a much a larger picture. The most conclusive data I have available is my own sales data and what I hear from others directly impacted in the industry (which are are no short supply currently).

But consider a corporate or educational environment in which software may be purchased for 50 workstations -- without anyone ever actually visiting the Smith Micro website.

Sure but also consider saturation of markets where there are free options available in direct competition. Any suggestion on volumes here are pure speculation. You could say there are millions of licenses purchased in this manner or very few depending on which way you want the outcome to slant. So it best to discard it unless there is some actual data available somewhere?

Site visits don't tell us anything about how Poser itself is selling. But I agree that they may be a decent indication of how third party Poser content is selling among those who rely on mass marketplaces to get customers (which, as AS points out, doesn't cover every Poser content creator, by far).

As a content creator and as we are in a content marketplace, this makes the data relevant to what we are talking about and the OP.

In any case, I still don't get why Daz users who neither use Poser, nor help Poser users get Genesis 1 or 2 working are even posting in this forum. As I said somewhere else, I get why correcting inaccuracies is important, but this thread is almost entirely speculation based on opinion. Why on earth would a Daz user care about that? Is the Daz forum here not active enough? Don't you have some renders in Iray to do? Surely you didn't buy all that Genesis 3 stuff just so you could bash Smith Micro in the Poser forum.

Again this is very divisive type language, very us and them. DS and Poser are tools not tribes. Your speculating that I don't have Poser or use Poser. Even when I have actually stated here that I have made content for Poser in the past. Again I ask if you want to comment, please try to make it constructive if you can. Preferring one tool doesn't mean you don't care or don't need to know about the other tools available and their viability. You're also assuming that I'm not using Poser because of some form of prejudice and not because market factors are affecting my livelihood and my decisions to be competitive in the sector. And Iray is rendering as I type (quite beautifully may i add :P).

Edit: As for Poser users who want to use Genesis 3, I guess we'll have a repeat of the same bloody argument with every single new generation of Daz figures and every single new Poser release.

No, with current trends eventually the markets will separate so radically that the common ground between these apps will slowly dissolve. Again looking at the last part of your comment if these "bloody arguments" are so frustrating and terrible for you to bare, why did you click on a thread titled "Poser 11 improve DAZ product handling?" did you expect to find something else in the thread? Surely it can't be that hard not to click on a link and harass the people who do want to further discuss the issue?

Or we could ask ourselves whether Poser native plus Genesis 1 and 2, which do work (to varying degrees, depending on how much work you want to do) and can even work natively in Poser without the DSON importer, aren't, in fact, sufficient for our actual needs. I'm fairly sure that a Python script could be written to make the process only take a few clicks -- for those willing to export assets out of DS. But would anyone buy it when the addiction to front page content is so enormous?

Tinkerers paradise: High marks <•> Commercial viability for a 3rd party content market: Unviable or at least unstable

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I need a drink... :D