Let me explain PayPal to you, Fivecat. I had my card hacked. PayPal now have it listed as a fraudulent card number despite me and the bank saying otherwise. I can NEVER use that card number again, nor any card linked to it. For me to use Paypal I have to apply for a completely new card (which I don't want), or transfer to another bank. Prolem is, I live in Australia not the US; you can't just get a card here, you have to have a certain level of income first, and I don't. I cannot transfer either. So because of Paypal's 'security' I cannot use the service. My vitriol towards them is because they will not take my word OR the bank's word that the card has been secured. Even if they changed their minds, I would not wish to use Paypal ever again. Oddly enough, it was because of the data hack here on rendo that my card was compromised. I am all in favour of VWD being secure. There are other alternatives with good reputations. Many vendors are looking elsewhere because they get smaller fees and better reporting and servicing. Just saying.