Wow... looking back on this thread can really set one to wondering. This all started because one person simply said that they hoped that the United States was sure they were doing the right thing. Then the whole thing went apeshit. It's funny...and a bit sad really. I know that my opinions are rarely shared by the masses... and I often find myself turned into a whipping boy in forums like this because I don't simply go along with popular opinion. Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword knew what they were talking about. I could literally feel anger and hatred pouring from some of you, through your words. Why is someone expressing a different opinion such a threat? Through the course of the day, looking at the thread and responding here and there, I made the mistake of allowing myself to be drawn into sidebar arguments. Let me simply say that I do not have a set of encyclopedias in front of me at all times and examples I may have used to illustrate my points were based solely upon my memory of certain events and articles/media etc that surrounded them at the time. Case in point: To Casamerica: Clearly I was never in Kuwait, thank God. I did not make up the things I said however I clearly remember reading them a short time after the gulf war. The source was a news magazine - and not a slanted left wing one either... but we are talking about 10 years ago here. I will admit that since you clearly have first hand experience that you are right and I was wrong about the state of individual liberties in Kuwait. I think that my point is still valid, however. We assisted the ousting of one oppressive dictatorship for an absolute monarchy that simply happened to be more friendly to us. And while the president spoke of "striking a blow for freedom" and other such rhetoric, the fact is that if it weren't for the oil involved, we wouldn't have been there at all. To Rtamesis: I was not eveading your question, there is no need for me to do that. You ask if one of my children were killed in the 9/11 horror, would I turn the other cheek yadda yadda. More to the point, you ask what would I do if I were the President. Well, I can't pretend to have all the answers, and as much as I disagree with the man in a number of ways, I do not envy his position. The one thing I know I would not do is start dropping bombs and missiles on an entire country (ok ok... certain locations within a country) to retaliate for the actions of one group. Maybe that's why I would never be the President, I guess. All through this forum I see arguments about how the Taliban opresses people in Afghanistan and how maybe these actions will stop that... like that gives more of a moral cause for our actions. Thing is, before the 11th happened, we didn't give a tin shit about who the Taliban oppressed... and we really still don't. The anguish over what happened last month will last a lifetime. Whether you lost friends or loved ones in the disaster is immaterial, if you are American.... nay if you are a compassionate human being in any way, you were affected by the horror. And the souls of the lost and their families are crying out for justice. I hear it as loudly as anyone. I simply don't think that this is the way to get it. To the people that were bombed today, those innocents caught in the crossfire I mean... we will appear just as evil as the terrorists that committed the original act. I don't think the care packages that we're also dropping will ease the woes of a mother who's children are gone. I don't think the family that huddles under an empty crate for shelter because their home was destroyed will feel any better that we gave them the box. And these actions will not bring back the lives we lost, will not shelter the families that were forced from their homes here, will not ease the pain in any way that I can see. I'm not trying to piss anyone off any more than I already have (never meant to in the first place... but I suppose it is unavoidable), but just as your opinions are unchanged by all this discussion, so are mine. And despite it all, the bombs still flew, and last I heard Bin Laden still lives. How many people her purport to be Christians? I, myself, am not. I am Pagan. I know Christianity pretty well though. I even studied with the intent of becoming a Pastor at one time (seems a million years ago now). I do know that George W. likes to talk like a Christian. He did say that the decision to launch an attack came with "a lot of prayer." Thing is, my Bible seemed to say that Christ taught us to turn the other cheek. That if you enemy strikes one cheek, offer the other is how I believe it is put. George is a Christian, I guess, when it may garner votes or the support of the Moral Majority. I guess that's all an arguement for another day. No good can come out of repaying evil with evil, I guess is all I meant to say. You can take that however you like or just ignore it. Whatever you want, I know it's not going to change a damn thing anyway. But I believe blowing shit up and killing innocent people is evil. No matter what your reason for it is. And I think that certainly applies here. The sun will rise tomorrow. Unfortunately, there's some six thousand people in New York who won't. Today we saw to it that that number was added to by however many in Kandahar and Kabul. I grieve for all of them, whether it is the "American" thing to do or not.