Wow fellas!!! A lot of comments! Ok I'll take this in steps hehe. More replies coming after this one.

First of all, I mentioned a few days ago that I had good news... well I do but not the one I intended. In short I had a great idea but as usual Poser didn't play along. Grr.

The actual good news is that the end is in sight now! I just want to thank my beta team for their relentless support despite my grumblings and incessant complaining about how HARD it is to make a figure in Poser. Also I would like to thank Chuck from Poser who has been very responsive to all my whining despite his own problems (I'm sure he hates me by now, I've been a real dick at times!).

Anyway. The rigging is almost complete and once it is, its just a matter of making SHITLOADS of morph packs and getting vendors interested. I sincerely hope we can automate the conversion of old content from V4 and G2 (unless DAZ decides to lock down).

The pictures below are not of the most recent rigging effort, I haven't had time to render anything yet.

Anyway, some replies:

Morkonan posted at 11:34PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4243700

[erogenesis]...

Not sure what you meant with the chin but I can tell you this: I have been utterly unimpressed with recent rigging jobs regarding the jaw and opening and closing of the mouth with Dawn and Pauline. When a jaw opens, the cheeks get stretched, and PE does this, thankfully! For the rest its all a matter of morphing what you want, as far as I am concerned. I'll do my bit with supplying options, but you're entirely free to do yours if you want!

Great previews and such!

On the chin: See the example link(s) I gave. Notice the topology around the chin? You can check V4, too, if you want. Now, compare that to your topology. You have nice flowing edge-loops around most of the mouth area, which is great for certain expressions and mouth morphs. (There's a star at the bottom of the cheek, but that might be fine. You'll only know when you start to create morphs. :) )

But, notice the comparison differences. In the exampled pic(s) and/or V4, the chin is topologically isolated, for the most part. There are reasons for that, of course. I don't remember if you said the figure's mouth was fully rigged or if you're using rigged expressions. But, if you're doing either of these, then getting some isolation of the chin area will definitely help the chin keep its shape with rigging-based morphs. For geometry based morphs (morph targets) the issue without isolating the chin a bit more is going to be felt a bit when creating those morphs. The flowing edge-loops will tend to naturally deform according to that long, flowing, shape, which can make keeping the chin well defined during morph creation somewhat difficult. And, during application of multiple morphs, this "could" become compounded.

I'm not familiar with the topology of the figures you mentioned. I'm happy with V4, what can I say. BUT, I certainly want to play with your new creation and that's a fact! But, you can see, somewhat, what I'm talking about in the advertisements for some expression packs. Typically, many expression packs are "cartoony" expressions - They're not realistic. Because of V4's somewhat "light" topology around the mouth area, you usually get funky bottom lips, squished chins, horrible "grimaces" and the like with many face-morph packs. V4 is an excellent figure, by-and-large, but it could have used a few more polys around the mouth area. Also, considering the longevity of V4, there are a huge number of custom head morphs and many of them fall afoul of the fact that V4 could benefit from a bit more oomph in the face department in regards to polycount around certain areas, like the chin/lower-mouth region. (Between bottom of lip and top of chin, also, unrelated, around top of mouth near the sides of nose. But, that's just complaints about V4 and custom faces/expressions.)

You've got a good bit of polys, there. More than V4, at least, and that's an improvement. When you're creating morphs and working with the mouth, just pay attention to how the chin and lower-lip area deform. Take note of how easy/difficult it is to make morphs that include the lower face while preserving the chin region. And, do the same when making expressions or rigging the mouth, whichever you are doing. IF you see the chin shrinking in the vertical when deforming and/or getting "pointy" or becoming more undefined when it shouldn't, consider isolating it a bit. Not, necessary, with edge-loops, but you can use the "squarish" topo evident in the example pics or in V4's own face as a guide.

Just a comment, by the way. Until you get a chance to get us some hi-res topo or, perhaps, UVs, it's all good, so far.

Oh, by the way... UVs, groups, etc? What's happening, there? :)

Check this image

That's a derivative of V4. Yes V4 lacked in polys in some places, but it was still doable. PE.mesh5 was indeed designed to fill the gaps that V4 suffered from!

I think I know what you mean with the chin polys and rigging (and yes her mouth, and innermouth, are entirely interconnected and thus rigged) and yes I agree that good poly distribution can greatly help with natural morphing and deformation, although in the end it's definitely up to the modeller / rigger to be able to make it work. I'm very happy you're content with what you're seeing. I don't claim to be an expert at all at this, so I'm happy I got it right lol!

UV islands:

• head
• torso
• arms
• legs
• eyes
• lashes
• fingernails
• toenails
• mouth
• teeth
• genital areas

I'll hook you up with some wires once I'm content with the rigging and figure. I'll provide a short time-frame for everyone to bitch and whine about it so that I can see if I need to change anything before proceeding.

cheers Morkonan!

honzu posted at 11:34PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4243786

erogenesis posted at 8:16PM Fri, 11 December 2015 - #4243550

PS:

Her details are currently:

• Articulated toes

Do they support Talk Designer?

Yes, its a special form of sign-language. I have yet to convince Poser of this development though... :D

estherau posted at 11:36PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4243860

In that last render above, the front of her neck looks a little amorphous. Has she got laryngeal detail? Love esther

Not sure what you mean, but yeah she does have a bit of a 'throat' inside there. cheers :)

wolf359 posted at 11:37PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244157

"Good news is that I found a very fast way to convert V4 clothing to this girl. Its not supersleek DS tech but its much better than dicking around endlessly in the fitting room. Everything you've seen her wearing up until now is converted V4 stuff." .

Hi, can someone explain to me the actual advantage of buying yet another female figure and converting V4 content over to her?

"G2 and G3 stuff might also be possible this way"

I would not make any promises about genesis content going forward if I correctly understand Daz impending; "Install only through Daz studio" DRM system

Granted I am a full-on Genesis 2 in C4D user now (V4 is Dead to me), But honeslty I have not seen a render or morph here that cannot be duplicated with existing V4 with all her native content not needing any converting.

Is the point just to have something "new"???

If you use Genesis in C4D then there might not be any advantage for you at all. C4D is a very good application which I am also looking into using.

Like others have said, Project E is firstly a figure which I intend on using in Poser, and perhaps it will prove useful to others too. I have used V4 for 3 years very intensively, and designed 'Lali's Bits' to help fix some of her bending issues. She's provided me with a fairly decent performance in those 3 years, I certainly cannot complain much, but she began to lack in certain areas, particularly with bending and anatomical detail. Hence Project E.

Also, in the lest few years there have been a great many developments in the world of 3D figures, mostly at the hand of DAZ, of which I took much inspiration from in developing Project E. Genesis 3 is among the best figures out there, but yeah, she don't work in Poser.

You'll have to see for yourself if PE is useful for you, and I'd love to see it rigged in C4D. I might even recommend Genesis 3 depending on what you need. PE's mesh was designed for bending more so than current figures (as far as I can tell) and yeah she has much more intricate anatomy than most figures, including a thoroughly integrated mouth and back of the throat. If that fascinates you, then you might like her!

and yeah Dale B is right, I don't give a fat flying fuck about this whole figure circus lol! I just want a good figure myself, and it seems a lot of people are interested in my shenanigans! I will admit I do feel bad for all the stranded Poser users though, it is a bit unacceptable that the founders of this scene are lacking so terribly while DAZ is just producing amazing shit. I hope I can help to make Poser users happy again.

estherau posted at 11:37PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244203

if V4 is so great - why are you now almost fully using G2. I really like the look of erogeneisis. She looks awesome. I want a new figure. V4 has some real disadvantages. She doesn' scale particularly well for a start - in poser that is. And I have tried both poser and DS and I prefer poser. I've tried genesis in poser and I prefer native poser figures in poser. Love esther

cheers esther! Yeah the scaling thing is a massive item on the PE menu. I have some skilled folks helping me with getting that right. I'm not going to lie to you about this though: Poser is indeed a very cool app, I love it, but it needs work deperately, and I hope PE will help to motivate them to focus on the right developments.

wolf359 posted at 11:39PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244301

"if V4 is so great - why are you now almost fully using G2."

Fair question Esther. First it is not that V4 (and her DECADE of fixes& enhancements) is so "great" per se.

It is just that no other figure has offered the desirable combination of versatility( ethnically & species wise),improved performance in animation ,better overall user experience and broad, top tier vendor content support..until G1-G2 etc.

As a vendor myself I am curious how the new figure will offer opportunies for new innovative content tech going forward for vendors.

For example if the process of converting V4 clothing is actually better than "d*cking around in the fitting room" that is great.

But more details on this process ,such as its dependancy on external tools VS poser pro native tools , should be explained, in detail ,IMHO.

But I must ask the question; If all V4 content can be refitted with the ease implied by the figure maker then what is the incentive for people to buy new Content made specifically for the figure??.

Would it not make better economic sense to spent the next year after its release, trying out all of the V4 clothing before spending more money??.

And this still ties the figures fortunes to the aged V4 in a substantial way at any rate

These and other Small market realities, too numerous to mention, are why I dont see how this figure offers any subtantial long term shift in the current paradigm.

Just one man's measured & unemotional opinion.

DAZ does a lot of things very very right (but also many things very wrong!) and I've definitely been inspired by what they've been doing. Just reading your comment does help remind me that I need to supply ethnic morphs and animation-proof rigging, which is also in my own interest as a comic artist.

I cannot offer any details as to these automated conversions just yet, since they are still getting designed, but for the most part, the theory works nicely within Poser itself, save for the morphs.

The incentives to buy new content are plentyfold.

First of all, have you evern been shopping with girls before? And have you seen the content of their closets? Thus have you noticed the disconnect between their need for new clothes, and their stockplie of clothes at home? haha. Some people just like shopping, regardless of whether they already have something similar. I KNOW Poser and DS artists like that.

Also, conversions are never perfect, even in DS they still need work. People can get bored and would rather pay to have someone experienced fix it for them, or simply buy clothes tailor-made for that figure.

Along those lines, its basically like DAZ has been doing for years now, vendors just rehash old content for a new figure and make more money off it that way. Basically customers are paying for the conversion. Its maybe a bit of a sleazy marketing gimick, but hey, if people are willing to pay for that, fuck it, it helps the vendor, it helps the figure... boom.

Like I already said before, just check her out if you want, her base mesh will be free. If she's cool, go for it, if not, no biggie.

chaecuna posted at 11:48PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244353

wolf359 posted at 8:31PM Tue, 15 December 2015 - #4244301

I'd say that beginning to support the traditional clothing of 1/3 of human kind is more urgent than deliver the nth maid dress, isn't it? so, if there is no more market for maid dresses, the better.

lol! good flipping point!!!

ok next round...

"The fool is not the one that does something foolish, but the one that does nothing at all."