Recently got a 3D printer.. _ (then not, as it's gone back for Warr replacement,.. but that's another story) _ SO, of course I start looking around for 3D software to design and build items to print with it, preferably free or rather low costing. Depending on what your desired product is going to be there are actually some rather well designed applications that can easily get the job done. I've only been at it for about a month in full force, but dabbled for a few years. Here's my quick way to check a file before importing to the printer.

Simple, fun "Artsy" stuff can be done is just about all the programs we here use. Many of the 3D printers out now will import and print OBJ files. though I've found them to not be the cleanest conversion, it can give you a really cool prints. You do have to be careful of hidden geometries and such as the printer will refuse the item of just end up giving you a mass of hot plastic all balled up on the printer bed. But, at least on a Mac, you can easily check if the item is at least reasonably acceptable by simply previewing it in the OS windows Yup the Mac (and I believe Windows has something like it also) you can preview items by using the "Columns" view or "Flow" view. If the item is going to import correctly the OS will display it and it'll be a gray color.. if it's not displayed, if it displays a icon, or if it's black, there is an issue.!

this can save a LOT of headaches later by just doing a simple preview of the item. and, it works for both OBJ and STL files.. both are the more popular file types for 3D printing.

Netfabb Basic is a very useful program to have to check objects for printing. Its free, although there is a "Pro" version available at a cost.

It can perform many common repairs, and in many cases will give you a 3d printable file. The "Pro" version can repair intersecting triangles and perform boolean operations

ya, have Netfabb.. I can't figure it out for the life of me. Played with it for days doing "repairs" but it just made things worse.. Sure it's me, just it seems really backwards in the way it works. Found fixing the file in the original app much easier ;) LOL

have you used Netfabb? I'm thinking a really dumbed down, simplified video of how to go about fixing files would be awesome! all the ones I've found skip around and don't really "teach" anything

I use Netfabb a lot. Although I'm using the Pro version, its very similar to the free version. For the kinds of repairs the free version can make, I recall it seemed to work fairly well.

However, I'm often chasing my tail with fixing intersecting triangles in the Pro version. Starting with good topology is definitely the key. If you are printing your own models then you can construct them in a way that they will be printable (usually).

I get lots of files made by others and have to fix them for printing. I'm starting to experiment with retopologizing.

Do you have any models that you could share that you've tried to fix yourself in netfabb? I also have the free version installed on my system, and could run a few through and record the process for you.

I can't get it to work.. OK, got it to repair the file supposedly, but then I only will save to it's Own "netfabb" file format.. which is basically useless.. and it doesn't ave the repair ta boot..

I've been using Shapeways for my 3d printing, because the models I'm creating for 3d jewelry can't be done on most standard printers. Shapeways uses powder laser sintering (SLS), which can handle more complex, shapes without supports or additional structures that need to be cut off later. Some of the shapes I'm having printed would be impossible to add supports to and then clean later. I also like to offer some of them in metal and other materials. I'd like to get a home printer like this for the more simple shapes though. I think it's great to have for quickly creating certain items

I'm modeling with 3dsmax for all my objects, which has it's own STL checker and export. I dont' like using OBJ for 3dprinting. I found the scale almost always gets messed up.

thomllama posted at 12:01PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4254985

I can't get it to work.. OK, got it to repair the file supposedly, but then I only will save to it's Own "netfabb" file format.. which is basically useless.. and it doesn't ave the repair ta boot..

Can you share the file you started with (prior to using netfabb)?

LuxXeon posted at 12:11PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4254991

I've been using Shapeways for my 3d printing, because the models I'm creating for 3d jewelry can't be done on most standard printers. Shapeways uses powder laser sintering (SLS), which can handle more complex, shapes without supports or additional structures that need to be cut off later. Some of the shapes I'm having printed would be impossible to add supports to and then clean later. I also like to offer some of them in metal and other materials. I'd like to get a home printer like this for the more simple shapes though. I think it's great to have for quickly creating certain items

I'm modeling with 3dsmax for all my objects, which has it's own STL checker and export. I dont' like using OBJ for 3dprinting. I found the scale almost always gets messed up.

Shapeways had partnered with ExOne for metal and silica printing. Maybe they bought some ExOne printers and are doing it in house now. Bottom line is this type of printer is VERY expensive ... think it will be out of the range of desktop printing for a few years anyway. Then there's the safety and/or health concern ... some of this printing might require controlled ventillation, an additional expense of course.

ya, my printer was $350.. and I get to watch it print.. Shape ways is OK.. but it always had issues with wall thickness as most of my stuff is small sized for flying RC quadcopter.. need to have 2mm or thinner walls which I could get shape ways software to allow.. though I didn't try all that has either

Very true, cjd. I don't think powder SLS will make it into the hands of home makers for many years, unless they figure out a better way to keep the stuff safe. You see the technicians there are wearing Level C HazMat suits when working with the stuff in powder form. The advantage of it is that you can get some very complex prints in a variety of materials, which makes it quite appealing to makers like myself, who have some designs that wouldn't have made it out of digital form any other way. Plus I wanted to offer some of them in metal options, like stainless steel and gold or silver plated.

I have some tutorials that illustrate shapes that could be done on home printers, but you'd need to add supports, and that would make them difficult to clean later. Some people have done them successfully on home printers though. I recommend MeshMixer for adding supports. It has a feature that could add them automatically to most objects.

LuxXeon posted at 1:30PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255000

I have some tutorials that illustrate shapes that could be done on home printers, but you'd need to add supports, and that would make them difficult to clean later. Some people have done them successfully on home printers though. I recommend MeshMixer for adding supports. It has a feature that could add them automatically to most objects.

my printer software does it automatically.. and surprisingly easy to clean off, seems even better/easier when using higher resolution prints.

cjd posted at 1:32PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4254992

Can you share the file you started with (prior to using netfabb)?

umm ya.. but where to upload.. hmmmm

thomllama posted at 12:30PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4254997

ya, my printer was $350.. and I get to watch it print.. Shape ways is OK.. but it always had issues with wall thickness as most of my stuff is small sized for flying RC quadcopter.. need to have 2mm or thinner walls which I could get shape ways software to allow.. though I didn't try all that has either

The minimum wall thickness depends entirely on the material you are offering. I haven't had a problem with most of my objects, and most of them are quite complex. The plastic materials can be printed with minimum thickness of 0.8mm walls. Metal material is where things need to be thicker. 3mm for unsupported parts, which makes sense, but you can get away with less than that as long as there's other reinforcing support in that area.

thomllama posted at 12:34PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255006

cjd posted at 1:32PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4254992

Can you share the file you started with (prior to using netfabb)?

umm ya.. but where to upload.. hmmmm

Click on your icon in the upper right hand area of the website. In the dropdown, choose "File Locker". You get a free amount of storage here on Renderosity for file hosting. I'd zip it before upload if it's a larger file size.

OK.. uploaded.. now how to link...? or can you guys just search through my stuff I mark public? yes i clicked public I have already fixed the item inside the creation app.. (Skechup) but more wondering how to get Netfabb to work.. like I said.. I can get it to "fix" it.. just can't do anything with tithe file after wards because it won't save the fix or save in a file I can print.

Go to your File Locker. Next to the name of the file (under the Title column) is a check box and plus sign. Click that plus sign, and it will open more info about your file, including a direct link. Just cut and paste the link here.

sweet
"test."

Netfabb Studio Basic (free version) will only do automatic or simple repairs. You'd need to upgrade to save additional adjustments or manual repairs to the model beyond that. I wonder if that's the issue?

thomllama posted at 12:54PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255011

sweet
"test."

Yep, that worked. I downloaded your model.

it says it repaired it.. shows it did.. just did simple repair.. but there isn't an option to export or save as anything other than Netfabb file format.. and it says it won't save the repair.. kinda strange

Go to Part > Export Part > STL

LuxXeon posted at 2:13PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255017

Go to Part > Export Part > STL

nope "part" menu away where once you hit the repair button.. the menu disappears..

Looks like some of your errors can't be repaired by the Automatic repair tool. It's fixed some errors, but you have some more it can not, and these might need the paid version to fix. I took the object into 3dsmax, and the STL checker there is showing 525 errors, which are mostly unwelded vertices and double faces, resulting in a non-manifold object. Is this an object you created in Sketchup?

thomllama posted at 1:16PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255018

LuxXeon posted at 2:13PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255017

Go to Part > Export Part > STL

nope "part" menu away where once you hit the repair button.. the menu disappears..

You need to "apply" the repair using the Apply Repair button at the bottom right.

yup.. Ketchup.. Honestly, i learned in Sketchup forums it just needs to be "grouped" and then the whole thing becomes a solid instead of individual faces and vertices.. or so it was explained to me.. anyway.. LOL the point of the original post was to show that a bad file can be seen inside the basic OS display system so any corrections can be made before even trying to import to a printer :) but man i want to figure out Netfabb as it seems to be the go to fixer..

There are some open edges in the object that can't be closed, because they have faces attached to them. I can try to fix this for you in 3dsmax if you'd like.

na.. already fixed and printed one..

worked great :) again.. the point original being made was that the OS can tell you generally if a file is OK for the printer (at least on Mac's)

Here are the parts of the object where the STL check is reporting issues (in red). These are double faces that aren't welded (because they're double faces). Unfortunately, I've come across a lot of these issues with objects exported from Sketchup. I'm sure there's a way to repair them there, but the issue is vertices that can not be welded.

Oh I see you fixed it already. Cool. Yeah, the problem is that Netfabb can not fix those kinds of issues with the free version. You'll need to upgrade it to do the manual corrections, and then save out.

LuxXeon posted at 2:46PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255025

Here are the parts of the object where the STL check is reporting issues (in red). These are double faces that aren't welded (because they're double faces). Unfortunately, I've come across a lot of these issues with objects exported from Sketchup. I'm sure there's a way to repair them there, but the issue is vertices that can not be welded.

ya, I've found it's the way ketchup works with reversed faces and the way it displays them. 1st off it starts with the back are up.. so until you give it some 3rd dimension thickness you're working on the wrong side.
2nd it uses white and light gray as face colors when modeling, the gray is almost the same color as it shows for shadows so it's near impossible to tell which is which.. Learned I go and made a black starter page, and make forward faces bright green and back faces bright pink.. now it's REAL easy to see what is what.. :)

LuxXeon posted at 2:47PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255026

Oh I see you fixed it already. Cool. Yeah, the problem is that Netfabb can not fix those kinds of issues with the free version. You'll need to upgrade it to do the manual corrections, and then save out.

yaaaaaaa... don't remember what the "quoted price" was .. but was ridiculous for me to be lazy and not just go back and fix the object in the Original app ;)

I don't blame you at all. It's usually easier to fix an issue like that in the original app than in Netfabb anyway. I like Netfabb, but have yet to use it for mesh error correction. I suppose if it were repairing something like a 3d scan, it might be more handy than some other solutions.

Finally had a chance to look at this ...

Netfabb Basic is not able to make complete repairs, so I tried Average Weld on vertices in Hexagon and then brought it back in to Netfabb Basic but it did not help much.

Did you model this totally in Sketchup?

Boolean operations I suspect are the contributing problem here. There's usually some very small error involved that when the retriangulation is performed, triangle(s) may be created where there should not be any (such as covering a hole that was created by subtracting a cylinder, where the end of the cylinder is on the same plane as the hole)

Before I had Netfabb Pro, I did all my booleans in Hexagon and used Avg Weld, and prior to going through Netfabb basic. I also had to ensure that there were no Ngons or quads prior to using a boolean operation (in other words, use fully triangulated objects).

Its hard to say here what exactly is happening without doing some tests.

One thing to try is building your objects 100 times larger, prior to doing any booleans. Some modeling applications don't allow you to increase the decimal accuracy, so multiplying by 100 gives you a couple extra decimal places to work with.

cjd posted at 3:28PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255051

Finally had a chance to look at this ...

Netfabb Basic is not able to make complete repairs, so I tried Average Weld on vertices in Hexagon and then brought it back in to Netfabb Basic but it did not help much.

Did you model this totally in Sketchup?

Boolean operations I suspect are the contributing problem here. There's usually some very small error involved that when the retriangulation is performed, triangle(s) may be created where there should not be any (such as covering a hole that was created by subtracting a cylinder, where the end of the cylinder is on the same plane as the hole)

Before I had Netfabb Pro, I did all my booleans in Hexagon and used Avg Weld, and prior to going through Netfabb basic. I also had to ensure that there were no Ngons or quads prior to using a boolean operation (in other words, use fully triangulated objects).

Its hard to say here what exactly is happening without doing some tests.

One thing to try is building your objects 100 times larger, prior to doing any booleans. Some modeling applications don't allow you to increase the decimal accuracy, so multiplying by 100 gives you a couple extra decimal places to work with.

There were double faces that were causing unweldable vertices. See my screenshots of the problem areas on the previous page to see where they're located. You're right in that it was probably caused by booleans.

BTW, this was a very interesting shape to reproduce in subD. Here's the model I came up with, matching the dimensions of your original. It tricked me a bit, because those holes are offset, and I didn't spot that originally.

The inset on the front arms was a little tricky at first too, and required a few more edge loops than I thought. Fun shape to work on though.

Now I'm gunna screw with ya.. cuz there is one more thing you are missing.. there is a 1/2 mm lip in it going from arm to arm going up the length of it ;)

Also, on the top side, there is a step in the arms circles that receive the lip on the anti vibe balloons..

LuxXeon posted at 7:02PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255057

The inset on the front arms was a little tricky at first too, and required a few more edge loops than I thought. Fun shape to work on though.

oh ya, and the mount holes also have a 1mm lip on the top side..

thomllama posted at 6:19PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255067

Now I'm gunna screw with ya.. cuz there is one more thing you are missing.. there is a 1/2 mm lip in it going from arm to arm going up the length of it ;)

Also, on the top side, there is a step in the arms circles that receive the lip on the anti vibe balloons..

LuxXeon posted at 7:02PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255057

The inset on the front arms was a little tricky at first too, and required a few more edge loops than I thought. Fun shape to work on though.

Haha. Yep, I totally missed those details in your model. I feel like I can add that step in the arm circles without any change in the overall edge flow with a simple bevel extrusion, but the 1/2 mm lip (which I also missed) will require me to redirect edge flow, and make some additional cuts.

LOL.. like I said.. don't bother I already made one ;) Was just screwing with ya :)

thomllama posted at 6:22PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255068

oh ya, and the mount holes also have a 1mm lip on the top side..

Wow. I missed more details than I thought. Ok, well those won't be much of a challenge. They are easy to incorporate into the current model. Again, it's that 1/2 mm lip that's gonna cause me to think about things a little.

thomllama posted at 6:24PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255070

LOL.. like I said.. don't bother I already made one ;) Was just screwing with ya :)

No worries. I was just playing around too. It's a good skill drill model for sure. Lots of very precise lips and bevels on it that make you think a little about topology if you're trying to model it with polygons. It's a good exercise.

ya know what's funny.. My 3D printer never properly worked.. had issues since day one... but shipped it back just friday I guess and I'm totally Jones'n now with out it LOL it's just so cool to envision something.. draw it up then print it out :)

thomllama posted at 7:16PM Sun, 14 February 2016 - #4255073

ya know what's funny.. My 3D printer never properly worked.. had issues since day one... but shipped it back just friday I guess and I'm totally Jones'n now with out it LOL it's just so cool to envision something.. draw it up then print it out :)

Yep, I agree. Of course, I have to wait a couple weeks for mine, because I go through a service like Shapeways, but 3d printing is absolutely a satisfying thing as an artist. To have the ability to create objects that you can hold in your hand eventually.