What wrong with flash??? Flash is good to use, its not just for the web. And don't forget about dare I say...warez!!! Okay I'm just kidding about the w word. But do you think van gogh would have stolen some paint and brushes if he had to. Heheheh!!! Yes warez are stealing, so depending on your moral standing. Personally I'm not behind warez but hey whatever floats your boat. I heard toonboom was good as well. Look around the web for it. Hmmm have to check these things out you guys mentioned. There is also always the old fashioned way, 8mm