Hey, guys and gals, I'm thinking of writing an article/tutorial on how to get the best from dynamic clothing in Poser and thought I'd ask everyone to chime in if they have a tip or a question about how to get something to work right in the Poser Cloth room. If you have a tip, please post it for everyone to read. If you have a question about how to do something, ask it and we'll see if we can get it answered for you. If you have a particularly perplexing problem, try to describe it in as much detail as possible so we can see if we can duplicate what ever is the problem.

sounds great to me always use more info on cloth room

That would be much appreciated. I always seem to have difficulties with the Cloth room.

One tip is give the cloth a chance to move. Don't put the figure into the pose at too early a frame. The cloth will whip around. And give it plenty of frames after to let it finish settling. The second half is for still obviously.

Right now, I thinking of breaking this up into sections such as mesh types and construction. Not every mesh is a good candidate for running through the cloth room. And some others simply aren't being run through properly.

That will lead me into my next section on how to set up the cloth for simulation. This will definitely be the biggest section.

Looking forward to this. Never used the cloth room much, simply because I don't understand how to get the best from it. It'd be good to know what sort of meshes work best so I can make some for myself.

SamTherapy posted at 9:30AM Wed, 11 January 2017 - #4294884

Looking forward to this. Never used the cloth room much, simply because I don't understand how to get the best from it. It'd be good to know what sort of meshes work best so I can make some for myself.

Here's the main thing to remember about meshes... a dense mesh is better than a low poly mesh for bending. I tried this yesterday. I went into blender and made a square plane, then imported it into Poser. The plane had a total of 4 vertices, one for each corner, I let it drape over Andy and it fell to the floor. The reason was simple. There were no vertices in the field to collide with Andy. Only the 4 vertices in the corners of the plane stopped it from going through the floor.

One more thing to remember is that poke through is not a failure, especially where the fingers and toes are concerned. Remember what I just said about vertices and dense meshes. They need something to collide with. Finger and toe tips are small targets. An easy way to fix it is to attach a ball prop to the fingers and toes until the simulation is done.

Yep, I figured out the dense mesh thing but by a different set of rules. I don't know if dynamic cloth uses the mesh directly or if it does micropoly distortions in a similar way to displacement. But anyhow, I reckoned that the denser the mesh, the smoother the folds.

The fingers and toes tip is a damn good one.

More than anything, I'd like to have a go at a dynamic cape for a Batman character. Maybe one for Robin, too. Then they'd really be the Dynamic Duo. :D

SamTherapy posted at 7:56PM Wed, 11 January 2017 - #4294933

Yep, I figured out the dense mesh thing but by a different set of rules. I don't know if dynamic cloth uses the mesh directly or if it does micropoly distortions in a similar way to displacement. But anyhow, I reckoned that the denser the mesh, the smoother the folds.

The fingers and toes tip is a damn good one.

More than anything, I'd like to have a go at a dynamic cape for a Batman character. Maybe one for Robin, too. Then they'd really be the Dynamic Duo. :D

I think Disney and Pixar have the best rule when it comes to things like animated hair and capes. Treat them as their own characters. You ever notice how you never see Batman's cape just hanging. It's always billowing out. Even Superman's cape hangs sometimes. Anyway, you two choices for capes, depending on what you want them to do. If I want the cape to hang or drape, I'd used the Cloth Room and play with the Cloth parameters and settings. If i want it to billow like Batman's cape, i'd use the Bullet Cloth feature Poser.

If you want to play with capes, there are a few freebies around. And depending on what you're doing with them, they can be a pain in either the cloth room or with bullet physics. I've recently finished up a series of renders where 2 characters ofter wore a cape. The wind force works well in the cloth room. But if you want it to lay a certain way, it's not easy. Most capes are modeled like a disk with the front removed. The with the draping it falls around them which is cool, if the figure is standing around but if there's any action it gets in the way.

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I'm not averse to having a number of different versions for different renders. A half circle for draping and maybe something more wedge shaped for billowing. The rigged capes I've tried have a number of annoying things about them which made me think dynamic may be the way to go.

SamTherapy posted at 10:26AM Thu, 12 January 2017 - #4294965

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I'm not averse to having a number of different versions for different renders. A half circle for draping and maybe something more wedge shaped for billowing. The rigged capes I've tried have a number of annoying things about them which made me think dynamic may be the way to go.

Here too, is something to remember about the mesh construction and polygon density. People think that because the cape will normally just be hanging down you don't need as many polygons because there's nothing for the cape to collide with. But not true. The cape will always need to collide with a. whatever's holding it up, be it a door, a coat rack, a floor or a person. b. If you use windforce, there have to be enough polygons for the "wind" to push. c. More polygons make the cape bend realistically.

Got it! Thank you.

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/bat-suit-for-m4/63432

ice-boy's bat-suit for M4 has a dynamic cape if you want to play around Sam.

Thank you! I'll go grab it.

Did you know?

That Poser has changed the file format on dynamic hair and dynamic clothing? I rarely buy dynamic clothes because I can so easily make them myself, so when I save them to the library, it's usually as a prop. So as I'm reading the reference manual for the Poser 11 Cloth Room, I see this:

"Beginning with Poser 11 and Poser Pro 11, hair and cloth dynamic files are saved with an .abc extension (Alembic format)."

If this goes like in the past, this will be mostly ignored, particularly by the stores and vendors.

This thread from 2010-2012 is full of useful information about Poser cloth sim.

Dynamic cloth - the cloth room For Compleat Dummies

bagginsbill posted at 4:00PM Fri, 13 January 2017 - #4295026

This thread from 2010-2012 is full of useful information about Poser cloth sim.

Dynamic cloth - the cloth room For Compleat Dummies

Thank you! Bookmarked.

bagginsbill posted at 12:21PM Fri, 13 January 2017 - #4295026

This thread from 2010-2012 is full of useful information about Poser cloth sim.

Dynamic cloth - the cloth room For Compleat Dummies

Thanks, BB. I will be sure to read all of that for my tutorial research.

In that thread the contributions of aRtBee led to him writing a big chapter on the cloth room for his Missing Manuals series, available free online.

Here's a link to aRtBee's Missing Manual chapter on The Cloth Room

From within there he has links to downloadable PDF tutorials as well as some cloth square test props I made.

Okay, kind of getting the feeling someone's trying to tell me something.

Nope - not at all. Just showing the previous work. There's always room for new info or new approach, and also maybe Poser 11 is different. I haven't done a cloth sim since that thread years ago.

EClark1894

If you have a tip, please post it for everyone to read. If you have a question about how to do something, ask it and we'll see if we can get it answered for you. If you have a particularly perplexing problem, try to describe it in as much detail as possible ...

I have all those things in that thread. Tips, questions, perplexing problems, etc. That's why I linked it and the tutorials.

bagginsbill posted at 9:52PM Fri, 13 January 2017 - #4295089

Nope - not at all. Just showing the previous work. There's always room for new info or new approach, and also maybe Poser 11 is different. I haven't done a cloth sim since that thread years ago.

Great, because I was hoping to take a step by step approach to the Cloth Room, but I also don't want to get too long winded or boring. But I'd like to distill the salient points of the thread so that people won't need to read each and every post to find what they need.

I'm doing a quick test right now on PhilC's Cloth Presets, and I'm having a bit of an issue. I've known about these presets for quite awhile, but I've never used them myself. Anyway, so far as how to use them, if you follow the instructions, they do what they're supposed to, and the numbers are entered in the fields they belong in. However, when I attempt drape the cloth over Andy, the draping dialog window appears, but it just sits there until i finally cancel it. On the other hand , if I change the numbers in the fields manually, the draping will begin almost immediately.

Just wondering if anyone else might have had an issue with Phil's Cloth Presets recently? Maybe it's a Poser 11 issue? Maybe my laptop is just crap?

I've been foolin with Poser since version 3 and have almost started feeling smug because most of my trips into the Cloth room produce satisfactory results. But this weekend my cloth item behaved itself but my figure's feet went through the carpet on the floor ! This is why I find this thread to be potentionally valuable. I reckon there will be a deluge of tips and hints, and you're never too old to learn something new. More strength to your elbow Mister Clark.

EClark1894 posted at 6:19AM Sun, 15 January 2017 - #4295161

I'm doing a quick test right now on PhilC's Cloth Presets, and I'm having a bit of an issue. I've known about these presets for quite awhile, but I've never used them myself. Anyway, so far as how to use them, if you follow the instructions, they do what they're supposed to, and the numbers are entered in the fields they belong in. However, when I attempt drape the cloth over Andy, the draping dialog window appears, but it just sits there until i finally cancel it. On the other hand , if I change the numbers in the fields manually, the draping will begin almost immediately.

Just wondering if anyone else might have had an issue with Phil's Cloth Presets recently? Maybe it's a Poser 11 issue? Maybe my laptop is just crap?

I've had the same problem with Philc's presets. They work well in previous versions but go haywire in poser 11. Not only do they take forever, I've had polygons expand to the size of football stadiums and head off in odd directions. Lately, I've applied the preset, written down the numbers and then hit the undo to add them manually. I can't experiment currently, but I'm wondering what would happen if I applied the preset and then just changed one number slightly if that would help.

RedPhantom posted at 4:54PM Sun, 15 January 2017 - #4295177

EClark1894 posted at 6:19AM Sun, 15 January 2017 - #4295161

I'm doing a quick test right now on PhilC's Cloth Presets, and I'm having a bit of an issue. I've known about these presets for quite awhile, but I've never used them myself. Anyway, so far as how to use them, if you follow the instructions, they do what they're supposed to, and the numbers are entered in the fields they belong in. However, when I attempt drape the cloth over Andy, the draping dialog window appears, but it just sits there until i finally cancel it. On the other hand , if I change the numbers in the fields manually, the draping will begin almost immediately.

Just wondering if anyone else might have had an issue with Phil's Cloth Presets recently? Maybe it's a Poser 11 issue? Maybe my laptop is just crap?

I've had the same problem with Philc's presets. They work well in previous versions but go haywire in poser 11. Not only do they take forever, I've had polygons expand to the size of football stadiums and head off in odd directions. Lately, I've applied the preset, written down the numbers and then hit the undo to add them manually. I can't experiment currently, but I'm wondering what would happen if I applied the preset and then just changed one number slightly if that would help.

It could also be an issue with Python.

Great thread guys! I'm sticky-ing it to the top of the forum!

Heh, i couldn't find it at first and thought it had been deleted. I've never had a thread stickied before, although the way that V4 thread stays around....

He a, it is a great thread, sorry to confuse you.

And here's a tip for those of you who want to do more than just drape cloth on a figure. I usually start my sims in the default zero pose. Let's say then that your final pose position is seated with legs crossed. That would be your final frame. Now press play and watch the animation to see how it plays out (Without the cloth of course.). Now you can see if there will be any trouble spots for the cloth sim, like one body part passing through another body part. That's obviously going to be a problem for any cloth that's in the way, and now is your chance to make any adjustments in the animation to prevent that from happening.

One more thing to remember is that Poser's animation is** interpolated**. Basically that means that the computer will fill in the gaps to move the figure from one frame to the next. If you haven't created a specific keyframe(s) between the starting pose and the final pose, the computer will make it's best guess for how you got there and move the figure accordingly.

Hmmm. So the other day I got an ebot for this thread. I opened and read the next message. Since then, there are more replies, but no email to me about them.

So - I guess the site still doesn't work right. Hmmm.

EClark1894 posted at 8:26AM Wed, 18 January 2017 - #4295351

And here's a tip for those of you who want to do more than just drape cloth on a figure. I usually start my sims in the default zero pose. Let's say then that your final pose position is seated with legs crossed. That would be your final frame. Now press play and watch the animation to see how it plays out (Without the cloth of course.). Now you can see if there will be any trouble spots for the cloth sim, like one body part passing through another body part. That's obviously going to be a problem for any cloth that's in the way, and now is your chance to make any adjustments in the animation to prevent that from happening.

One more thing to remember is that Poser's animation is** interpolated**. Basically that means that the computer will fill in the gaps to move the figure from one frame to the next. If you haven't created a specific keyframe(s) between the starting pose and the final pose, the computer will make it's best guess for how you got there and move the figure accordingly.

I usually use the cloth room for animation, and usually use 20 frames at zero pose, 20 frames to morphed pose, still at zero pose, the 20 frames to start of animation, In the animation palette I set the interpolation between zero pose frames to straight (orange) so that movement from the animation does not work back and cause any unintended shifting about. Another trick I sometimes use (on V4/M4) is to add 0.1 in the figure's Bulk body morph at frame 40, then dial it back to 0 for rendering after the simulation is complete.

Purely as a personal opinion, here's another tip from me. Give your cloth time to settle into it's final position. Those 10 extra so of frames at the end could straighten out some errors or miscalculations like poke thru or collision errors and give your cloth a more natural looking drape.

Okay, so I've been a bit distracted for the last few days. My day job, mainly, and... well, not getting enough sleep to do it properly. Anyway, so now that I've determined that the cloth presets are not working properly in Poser 11, who do I report that problem to. PhilC and hope that he will rewrite the Python script to get it working again, or Smith Micro and hope that they will fix whatever broke the script in the first place?

I'm starting to feel another WISHLIST thread coming on for Poser 12. We need some improvements in the Cloth Room, and one of them would be a way to not only import cloth presets , but a way to save any custom presets you come up with in the Cloth room and to store them, preferably in the Cloth itself. As a Content Creator, if I go through all the trouble of finding the right and proper settings so that the cloth is acting exactly as I want it to, I should have someway to store that info and pass it on to the customer.

Another tip for everyone. One I had suspected for a while, to be honest. When setting collision offset in the Cloth room, make sure to increase this value a bit more than what you actually want. Because Poser's calculations take a little time to actually do, the cloth object may already be past the offset point by the time it's finished. Increasing the offset distance that Poser needs to detect the cloth object may keep the cloth object from poking through.

Still experimenting with the Cloth Room.

A quick tip: Dynamic clothing can be save as either a PP2 prop or a wave front object. One essential difference between them is that a PP2 prop MAY have save dynamic settings information stored in it, which means Poser will recognize that it has been clothified once before. Poser will ask about this if it has. You should check the Read me's of any dynamic clothing you buy to see if the vendor has included any dynamic information in the clothing. In any case, you should check the geometry file in the runtime for a "clean" object file if that's what you prefer.

Somebody... somewhere... asked how to make clothes cling to the skin in Poser as if wet.. Honestly don't know yet. I know that 3DS max has a Cling setting (I'm told), but apparently Poser doesn't and I haven't found a way to simulate one yet. Still looking.

A few tips, especially for beginners. Everyone wants to do a masterpiece and the more you practice, the sooner and faster you'll get there. But don't be in TOO big of a hurry.

1. If you're just starting out in the Cloth room start with small poses, like sitting down, lying down or walking.
2. Fit your clothes to the figure in the default or zero pose position. If nothing else, it's just easier.

Bookmarked this thread! Here's a weird issue: As the cloth simulation is running, the figure normally spins around (the y axis). Most of mine don't do that anymore. Instead they go all over the place - closer, farther, no obvious axis. Is there a way to fix this?

VolcanicMink posted at 12:31PM Thu, 16 February 2017 - #4297656

Bookmarked this thread! Here's a weird issue: As the cloth simulation is running, the figure normally spins around (the y axis). Most of mine don't do that anymore. Instead they go all over the place - closer, farther, no obvious axis. Is there a way to fix this?

What kind of poses are you using?

Anything, it doesn't matter. That is, in regard to characters I've worked with a lot. A fresh V4 or M4 work fine. My guess is that somewhere in the process of changing props or hair I am hitting keys that are changing the angle of the camera (effectively, the stage). After working in Silo or Blender, I have caught myself trying to change the angles with the Alt or Shift keys in Poser. Ctrl+Z works great if I notice it in time, but eventually my regular characters get messed up this way and I don't know how to fix it. Don't know how much it effects the overall positioning of the garments, but after watching a fresh Victoria spin around into a dance pose with a dress all nicely flared out I have to wonder.

Created another dead end. I seem to be good at that :)

Here's a request, for either a tutorial or for the wishlist: ClothRoom settings for some basic materials, say, Leather, canvas, linen, silk, etc. I have a good description of all the settings from one of Fugazi1968's tutorials, but it's still a puzzle.

hi all, as BB has advocated already, lots of stuff is available already just to save you sorting out things all over again. And it does need an update, I guess, due to new developments. But all notions on basics, principles, settings etc will be fine. Happy Posing, aRtBee

I haven't actually stopped collecting information or re-reading anything. However, for the past 3 to 4 weeks, I've literally felt like I've had both my feet dangling in my grave. And when I wasn't feeling half-dead, I wasn't feeling up to snuff much to be experimenting. Still not.

However, as for your basic material's settings, that already exists. PhilC has some material settings all worked out , but it's currently broken in Poser 11. (May be a Python thing.) Works in earlier versions of course, and you can manually enter the settings in P11.

Get well soon.

Thanks. I think I'm starting to feel better.

@VolcanicMink: The spinning is due to the Main and/or Hip Y rotation settings on some poses. You need to check both. Before doing this, I would turn off the Camera animation, since sometimes this can be what really is rotating. Since the rotation has no maximum or minimum setting, you can then deduct or add 360 degrees to that number. This fixes most issues, although sometimes there are issues with the Hip having X or Z rotations as well. You will see that the charater wobbles through the animation in that case.

Something for pose creators to consider!

3Dave mentioned setting the the interpolation between zero pose frames to straight (orange). I havent tried this, Might that help with the hip X/Z wobble issue?