wolf359 posted at 1:38PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318687

I have stated before - I have lots of V4 outfits that have never been worn by V4 in my stories. My bloated V4 clothing runtimes are available for any figure I care to use. Hair is decoupled from figures thanks to Netherworks' Hair Control System. I harvest V4/M4 textures via Texture Transformer and Texture Converter (both excellent investments) for use with other meshes.">>snip<<

Hmm...... here is the problem (from a marketing& businees survival perspective) Poser loyalists are still using V4 and her content as their standard. poser will not survive unless there is growth its user base from NEW users.That is the reality of market growth.

New users want to see NEW stuff.

No new user gets excited about an Iphone because it is promoted as being able to run some 10 year old app from IOS 1.5 with some "extra steps" involved

No new user gets excited about an android phone because it still supports some 10 year old app from android 3.1 with some "extra steps" involved.

No video gamer gets excited about a game platform because technically you can get it run/play "Duke Nukem"with some "extra steps" involved.

Sure it remains possible for us DS users to still use V4 's catalogue on the genesis figures via the autofit technology in DS, but spend some time in the Daz forums and it becomes obvious that content buyers have long since moved on to the new stuff being sold.

And V4 Clothing is made even less relevant by the new built in hybrid Dforce cloth engine in DS that makes any CONFORMER dynamic.

Put the $349 VS $0 USD price disparity aside for a moment.

And try to convince a new user to learn those clever 8 step hacks to use older V4 clothing from the crumbling caves of the past.

Or give them the option of DS ,the lates genesis figures and automatic use of the new and shiny content being sold in the Daz store daily and it is a no brainer which platform the new user is going to choose.

Is that really the hill you want to die on?

I've been haunting the DS forums since 2004 - those fine folks have been recycling the same "vision" of art since V3 - single image pinup/fantasy art. DS is fine, IF one is willing to live with it's small, walled garden - it is limited in both content and tools available. Dforce? Yay! DS is catching up to Poser 5.

I'm a Poser Pro 11 user - I don't have a walled garden, I have 40 acres and a mule. Yes, my workflow is a bit convoluted, I don't live with a Poser 4 workflow - but if I was doing the same, single image pin up art that beginners do, 90% of those steps aren't necessary. What I do CAN'T be done in DS, because DS doesn't have the tools necessary to execute my vision.

New users aren't going to see NEW stuff, regardless of figure, when vendors are hell-bent that they aren't going to make NEW stuff. There are a LOT of things I would like to buy, but vendors don't make it. So I have two choices - not execute my vision, or bend, fold, mutilate, or kitbash what I own. I choose to execute my vision.

On to specifics......

Go look at characters being made - doesn't matter what the base mesh is, they all look alike. Vendors use the same exact features, regardless of base mesh - they use the exact same physical features, and/or they use the same skin textures with no changes. (Pick a vendor and look at their main promo images for each character they make - they all look related.)

AFA content, we had a much wider variety of content back in the V3/M3 era than we do today. Fortunately, that doesn't matter for Poser users - we pick the figures we want to use, the clothing we want to use, and have at it. We have magnitudes of more content than the competition. We can do this because the tools are in the software, not the figures.

BTW, let me know when a DS vendor figures out how to make movement morphs for their clothing, like we had with that "ancient" V4 (or V3 for that matter). BTW, how much of that "new" content is recycled from earlier figures? Here's a hint - if it can use textures from earlier content - it is the same product. Take a look at the period content for the g figures - a lot of it is just recycled V4/M4 content, as are shoes.

As a Poser user, I am not repurchasing content I already own. Nor am I dropping $20 on an outfit (with 1 or 2 textures), when I can get literally hundreds of them for $1.99 (or less). I was picking up characters and clothing for V4/M4 for 52 cents apiece.

DS is great, IF your goal is to be a 3rd rate Elvgrin wannabe. But, to move beyond that - they have to expand their skills, just like Poser users.

If I limit myself to any figure OTHER than M4/V4, how do I clothe characters in a period (any period) piece? How do I clothe characters in a professional environment? How do I clothe characters in the spring, fall or winter?

Answer - you can't, without either autofitting (for DS) or Fit room (Poser) M4/V4 content. V4/M4 is the common language for Poser/DS, due to the length of time those meshes were available, and the sheer glut of content made for them.

Think I'm kidding? Pick any figure not named M4/V4 and try to get them a very basic wardrobe (1 week of clothing, per season) using only clothing for that g figure.

A DS user will be autofitting the hell out of clothing content (usually M4/V4), just like a Poser user.

Here's another one for you - I need stock a Star Trek ship with figures - they need to be in the same uniform. As you try to get everyone in the same outfit, how many ethnic groups can you manage? I can get Sydney (Jessi, Olivia), Dawn, Roxie, Miki (1-4), P6Jessi, Pauline, Eroko, Alyson, Kez, Scarlett, V2, V3, V4, V5, V6, and V7 in the same V4 Courageous outfit. The same can be said for male figures. SM characters, Daz Characters, 3rd party characters - it's all grist for the mill.

Why do all of those figures matter? Because I need more than early 20's Caucasians. Each mesh may only have 2 or 3 separate ethnic characters, BUT with enough base characters, I can get a nice, diverse group. Try that with only using 1 base figure. As a Poser user, I can do that, because I have many more figures available to me.

As far as that "price disparity"? If you want Poser Pro's tool set - you'll be spending more than $349 for add-ons. And you still can't leverage as much as one can with Poser.