shvrdavid posted at 6:58PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357395

You seem to be missing the fact that Bondware bought Poser, that is only part of the investment as well.

I was making a point there that apparently wasn't as obvious as I thought it was. My mistake.

What I was alluding to was that Bondware/Renderosity's investment in Poser may not be primarily financial. I have no idea what they paid for it, but there is the possibility that they may not need the money back that badly, and can afford to let the acquisition pay for itself over the course of years (and not necessarily by selling licenses). They may honestly believe that Poser is the better application, and keeping it alive is all that matters. They may want to be the go-to people to cater to that section of the market that sees itself as shut out or left behind by DAZ. Or they may simply not want DAZ to have an unchallenged monopoly on this hobby/industry/whatever. (And having the means to give DAZ a metaphorical middle finger could be reason enough at this point.) It could be a combination of all of these, or even none of these, but by acquiring Poser they've achieved that goal and the money necessary to do that is incidental. THAT's what I meant by "investment".

Simply handing it over to opensource is an instant loss.

No, it's not, but that would also depend upon one's motivations. If the goal was to generate revenue by selling licenses, then YES, going open-source WOULD be a loss. However, if the goal is to keep Poser alive as an alternative platform for older content or content that was incompatible with DAZ Studio, and you plan on making your money back in the long term through content sales (just like DAZ) by catering to that market, then it's a win.

And to say that the previous companies that owned Poser bailed is an assumption.

No, it's not -- it's objective fact. Excluding Bondware/Renderosity, each previous owner held onto Poser for about 4 years and pooped out about 2 versions before fobbing it off onto someone else. The first couple of flips I can see, but really, probably the most amazing thing about Poser at this point is that each [EDIT] owner has managed to find someone else to buy it off of them before they pulled the plug on it for good. (And it sure as hell looked like Smith Micro was headed down that path before Bware/Rendo stepped up.) And as I've also pointed out, that cycle can only go on for just so long. My guess would be that -- unless BWare/Rendo can do something really amazing with it -- this is probably Poser's last chance.

Sure, they eventually decided to sell, but assuming you know why isn't the true picture.

I never claimed to know why. I'm simply commenting on what I've observed.

Smith Micro could have chosen to keep Poser, hire a huge graphics division and pushed the product like they do with the communication software, but they apparently chose to sell it instead of putting any further investment in it.

Yeah, because when I seek out a team of top-flight software engineers to retool my aged-out jury-rigged graphics software, I always look to -- what was it again -- Portugal or Singapore? Of course, only after I strip out the team that's been with the project for years and knows it inside and out -- gotta get a fresh start, don'tcha know? But hey -- at least they didn't bail on it, right? Yeah, that's TOTALLY not what they did.

Constantly comparing Poser to successful opensource projects is a bit odd as well. If you compare Poser to FreeBSD, ReactOS, etc, then you will see that opensource projects with moderate backing, never really take off.

You seem to be making an assumption here. I never claimed that Bware/Rendo SHOULD make Poser open-source -- someone else in a different forum made that suggestion, I liked it because I think it's a bold new direction with a fair chance of success, and I came here to throw it out for discussion. I'm willing to admit that Poser may NOT be a good candidate for open-source, but right now, the only real arguments I'm hearing against it are:

1. That Bondware/Renderosity are counting on making their money back by selling licenses. I don't know what their situation is or what their plans are. Yes, I've read the releases -- [paraphrasing a bit here] "great opportunity", "bright future", "bold new direction", yada yada yada, etc. etc. etc. -- same old boilerplate that everyone who has ever acquired Poser has said before. If their plans are to simply do their own version of what everyone else has already tried, then prepare to be disappointed. It'll just be another real-world example of the definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and again and expecting different results each time).

2. Licensing issues. This is probably the killer issue right here. Someone earlier pointed out that the Face and Hair rooms are licensed, and in a way that they can't be distributed or removed from the application. I pointed out that licenses can renegotiated or they can be allowed to expire, and there are probably other options. This could kill the idea itself, it could simply be a hurdle to overcome, or it could even not be a real issue at all. I don't know the details, and the person who raised the idea didn't sound like they did, either. But I'd say it's at least worth a look.

Comparing Poser to Linux is just ludicrous, I'm sorry, it is. Linux is the number one server operating system in the world. There is no comparison to the success of Linux.

It's a matter of degree, not of kind. The fact still remains:

1. Anyone can acquire Linux for free, either as source code or compiled.

2. They can edit the code and recompile it. Helps if they have a good idea to implement, know what they're doing, and have the skills to pull it off, but hey...

3. They can contribute financially to the development of Linux, either through donations, buying associated merch, or buying packaged releases.

4. Points 1 to 3 could also apply to a FOSS-based Poser.

Someone (or rather, a lot of someones) also spent a lot of money making Poser what it is today. Of course, not anything like the money that Linux received, but like I said -- it's a matter of degree, not of kind.

So now Bware/Rendo own this latest, greatest (and possibly last or at best next-to-last) version of Poser. What would stop them from cleaning up the source code and designating it as Code Base Zero (or whatever), resolving any possible licensing issues, and telling the community "This is where we're at. This is the process by which we're going to move the project forward. Now tell us where you want to go." Or -- as I've said many times by now -- they could just do the same crap that everyone has already tried time and again, and at best, I'd give them about 4 years and 2 versions before they also try to unload it on someone else, just like everyone else before them has done. (And if they CAN'T find someone to take it off their hands, then I predict that THEY will be the ones who finally kill off Poser, rather than sink more money into it. Wouldn't THAT be ironic?)