Okay, Let's try to address this one by one.

DustRider posted at 7:51AM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358861

Interesting that you post a link to a video that highlights what you seem to be doing here. I think it's also interesting that throughout most of the video, you could substitute "Poser" for "Lightwave", and it fits amazingly well.

I didn't plan this post or that video. I just happened to find it while googling for "Lightwave 3D". But yeah, I did find what I considered simularities in the topics.

Before I go any further though, I just wanted to mention that the features Cobalt mentioned aren't asking for the sun, but just asking for what other 3D software already has that she feels makes her life better.

Nothing wrong with her feature wishes. Where she and I parted company was where she was starting to wish Poser could do what some other app was already doing. My advice still stands. instead of wishing Poser would bloat itself even more, make the other app a part of your workflow. I wish I didn't have to go outside of Poser to make UV sets or texture models. It'd be nice if Poser did that, but it doesn't so I use GIMP and Blender as part of my UV workflow. They already do that stuff.

Also, I just have to add a minor correction (probably just a typo on your part?), Lightwave was not the most expensive, and in fact among the big names (at the time it's popularity started to wane), it was the cheapest. Making it's demise even more instructive.

Not a typo. Faulty memory perhaps. Lightwave wasn't cheap to me. Neither was Maya, or 3D Studio. As far as I remember they were all more expensive than Poser when it first came out.

Now for a few direct quotes from the video you linked:

"Lightwave became irrelevant due to an inability to change, a loss of key talent, and an actively hostile user community"

Maybe from where you, and other Poser faithful are sitting, this doesn't sound like what has happened to Poser. But for those who have moved on, and especially for those who have asked for Poser to have features and content available in DS also in Poser, it probably sounds quite familiar!

Can't argue that one. Especially since, again, iirc, Poser actually beat DS to the punch on several features. Btw, and we can argue semantics, but I don't consider a "plug-in" or a "Script / python" to be a true feature of that program. But that's just me, I guess.

"There was incredible resistance to change in the Lightwave community."

Does this sound familiar? Even though some of the remaining faithful say poser needs to move forward, when someone posts about features they would like to see in Poser to help it compete with the competition (yes, DS/Iray has bloom), they get told to "stop it". Really????

I already addressed this one.

"The final nail in the coffin of Lightwave was the user community, as previously stated, the users helped to retard the development of Lightwave at a crucial time, as many users left for other platforms. The only ones on the forums were the Lightwave hipsters. If you didn't like the way Lightwave was set up, or you found the software killing bug, the problems was you, never Lightwave."

This seems just like here (and the now defunct SM Poser forum), the Lightwave Community wasn't interested in knowing why people were leaving. Which is just insane, no business can ever succeed if they don't understand what their customers want. Keep in mind, with Lightwave they were leaving to use more expensive software. However, with Poser, many have left to use free software (though some have moved on to the "Big Boys").

As the video indicates, there were several reasons why Lightwave was losing users. But look, I don't even like McDonald's, but if they started giving out free burgers, yeah, I'd be there. It doesn't mean they're better, just free. I think McDonald's fries suck, but I'd eat that too if it meant getting a free burger.

But here's the thing that no one seems to be getting. If DAZ is losing money on DS, but making money on content, then why cut out Poser? They'd make even more money by making Poser compatible content, wouldn't they? In fact, they've appeared to go after other markets that are even more incompatible than Poser. So, it's not that it can't be done. They just don't want to. Switching to DS was never really in the cards for me anyway, as DS never ran on my Mac, to get Genesis, I would have to load DS on my Mac to get it. But DS wouldn't run on my Mac, so... I tossed the idea of making a Poser compatible model, but was dismissed almost before I wrote it down.

The exact reason I quit the SM Poser forum, and why I quit visiting this forum until Rendo bought Poser. Unfortunately their buying Poser didn't remove the toxic environment. If you really want to know how to improve Poser, and make it attractive for people again, you need to be better than the competition (assuming it remains a "paid for" product). You can't know what the competition does better by sticking your heads in the sand, plugging your ears, and going continually "nanananananana".

OK, now the Poser faithful can flame at will .... like they always do. I'll check back sometime to see if anyone really want's to have a real conversation about what I think Poser needs to become successful again. But my guess is like on the Lightwave forums, the Poser faithful really don't want my opinion, unless it's to say how great Poser is.

Peace out!

Honestly, I don't think you really know what would make Poser better, and the way you keep throwing around that perjorative, "Poser faithful", sounds like you're spoiling for a fight. I won't give it to you, but I will defend my position. But again, that's only MY opinion.