I re-zeroed both collar and shoulder many times, there was just no getting to the desired postion. Changing the joint order to YXZ seems to eliminate the gimble lock. However, when I made the change, I got a warning that I might need to "readjust joint zones", and the upper arm is obviously not blending correctly. I was hoping someone had tried the joint zone thing and could give me some idea if it was worth a shot. Any ideas? Cal