What is the rationalization for taking a program (Poser) with a smaller user base than the competition (DAZ) and upping it's cost? (Free vs whatever)? If you're trying to expand your user base you would offer more rather than squeeze the remaining users (who have hung around due to program loyalty), decrease the ability of the user to improve his/her content (HD morph lockout) and maybe become a vendor, and stomp out any incentive for user innovation - which btw, is what Poser and DAZ are built on. DAZ bought up competition, shut down their forums and harvested all the innovation and insights into the program developed by users, and then turned around and locked out certain features (HD morphing) and charged users for what the users developed. WOW, what innovation. Plus, the DAZ figures are an improvement over Poser. But hey, Bondware will do what they want and justify whatever they do.

The problem with phone home and subscription is that you are not fully advised as to what info they're "looking at". They wouldn't even admit to it until caught. BTW, the Stuxnet virus which shut down Iran's nuclear facilities was facilitated by phone home technology.

And whose "Intellectual Property" resided in those forums? The software company would say "we bought the forums, the content is ours". Oh, but they'll also disallow anyone from claiming they gave money for a piece of software so the content belongs to the user. Nope, not only do you have to pay forever or we'll shut you down, we will also peruse your hdd anytime we desire, and all this under the guise of protecting OUR intellectual property.

Well sure good reasons to stay far away from subscriptions and Call home systems . I actually have not one Program running on my Machine that does such. SM gave the option to remove the call home with a Permanent Licence so that one is the last one for me unless Bondware removes hes 7 day Call home system and makes it Permanent.

The way they forced People to Install the new Poser 11.2 can be compared like holding a Gun on your head saying Sign the new contract with us or we pull the trigger. So most just silently Signed there new conditions and accepted them with a gun on there heads.

My supposed permanent serial number crapped out and SM excused itself from the whole deal.

We'd better not continue in this thread, I don't want to piss off JAG as it's his thread :)

Jin_Yindao posted at 4:32PM Sat, 14 December 2019 - #4373187

I will apologize for my post as it was a little off topic, but then it was merely to show it happens in other programs when carried back into poser. Not like the lengthy ones about daz that has nothing to do about morphs being carried back into poser.

I replied to you by private message. As for the DAZ issue - it has everything to do with the GoZ issue and Poser. They both use the bridge to Zbrush and one company is intentionally blocking users from using HD capabilities with the bridge and the other denies doing so but has the same block-style-issue. Pardon me for being more astute than others and pointing out similarities in order to make a point. The fact that I'm "length" just means I'm thorough and don't half-hand everything for the sake of brevity. How Silo had anything to do with GoZ I still don't know. But as I said - keep on topic please or make your own thread. I don't think that's asking too much.

GhengisFarb posted at 4:36PM Sat, 14 December 2019 - #4373227

JAG posted at 8:28AM Fri, 13 December 2019 - #4371431

Caisson,

I just wanted to make a quick point on the business practices which you used to divert the matter away from DAZ...{entire unabridged novel War and Peace}...I hope someone is listening and realizes that I have made valid points. I hope in the end, it helps.

I agree with most of Caisson's observations. I think a subscription model is likely inevitable. How it's implemented will determine if it kills or saves Poser.

1. If you charge monthly for something your competition gives away for free you're probably going to be in trouble. DazStudio is free, if the new version of Poser is subscription based and prior versions are left along and not forced to deactivate, but the subscription model is constantly supported, gets new features that work well, people will willingly go to the subscription model for the better software and features and this will likely work.

2. I have been an avid Poser user since Poser 4 (I had purchased Poser 2 but hadn't used it much) but I think you're going to have to suffer through a period of "rebuilding" like sports team do where you're not a profit but building confidence for your software before you start making profits again. I think that a more lucrative strategy than trying to make a profit right off the bat in the face of Daz3D war against you.

Thanks for agreeing with me on most of that. It was me, not Caisson that posted that. Just didn't want Caisson catching the blame for my lengthy rants. Ha, ha.

movida posted at 4:38PM Sat, 14 December 2019 - #4373255

What is the rationalization for taking a program (Poser) with a smaller user base than the competition (DAZ) and upping it's cost? (Free vs whatever)? If you're trying to expand your user base you would offer more rather than squeeze the remaining users (who have hung around due to program loyalty), decrease the ability of the user to improve his/her content (HD morph lockout) and maybe become a vendor, and stomp out any incentive for user innovation - which btw, is what Poser and DAZ are built on. DAZ bought up competition, shut down their forums and harvested all the innovation and insights into the program developed by users, and then turned around and locked out certain features (HD morphing) and charged users for what the users developed. WOW, what innovation. Plus, the DAZ figures are an improvement over Poser. But hey, Bondware will do what they want and justify whatever they do.

The problem with phone home and subscription is that you are not fully advised as to what info they're "looking at". They wouldn't even admit to it until caught. BTW, the Stuxnet virus which shut down Iran's nuclear facilities was facilitated by phone home technology.

Movida, Darn good points! Thanks for chiming in. As I blabbed about relentlessly, the similarities between the Goz blocks in DAZ (intentional) and in Poser (?) beg to be considered. It's not as much of a competition as a street fight between two bullies - and no matter which one eventually wins, users are still going to be losing.

gate posted at 4:41PM Sat, 14 December 2019 - #4373282

Well sure good reasons to stay far away from subscriptions and Call home systems . I actually have not one Program running on my Machine that does such. SM gave the option to remove the call home with a Permanent Licence so that one is the last one for me unless Bondware removes hes 7 day Call home system and makes it Permanent.

The way they forced People to Install the new Poser 11.2 can be compared like holding a Gun on your head saying Sign the new contract with us or we pull the trigger. So most just silently Signed there new conditions and accepted them with a gun on there heads.

Yep, if you're not running the last release of Poser Pro 2014, you're out of luck. I had the Game Dev upgrade and they just shut it down in the first week of November. Honestly the only benefit it had was FBX import. So I just downloaded the Poser 11.2 and installed it. If I need an FBX, I use it for that. I don't like the phone-in feature either. I get it and I understand it cuts down on piracy and I don't blame them on that - and I don't even mind dealing with it every 60 days or so, but not weekly. That's ridiculous. And because of viruses and such I don't connect my workstation to the internet at all. Why would I? Only to reactivate software. Everything else I download goes through a web-only-computer I have and gets the ever-loving ping scanned out of it before it ever makes the trip to my work-station. I make a living off my work-station so I can't afford a virus. And again, I don't mind connecting for a few seconds every 60 days. But every week is pushing my tolerance level. I've got MAX...maybe I'll just start converting my FBX with it and let Bondware have 11 back.

Movida,

The GoZ bridge issue is really very much linked to the DAZ/Poser rivalry and the similarities (as I've pointed out) between the GoZ problem and DAZ's use of intentional program blocks to maintain control of content --- all make your points relevant I think. I only tapped the other fellow because he was talking about export issues with SILO. That had no relevant relation to the discussion. I didn't intend my post to turn into a Bondware/Smith bash, but I got burnt on my Game Dev license as well and that one will forever scorch my relationship with Bondware. If you have a license for Poser Pro 2014 (not Game Dev version but the base) you can enter that license into your Game Dev when prompted and it will downgrade you to PP2014 which never calls in. There are not non-call-in licenses beyond that. If you need help with it, you can review my other post here for instructions: Downgrading Game Dev Instructions Post

Hm. Interesting thread.