Thanks people. Sorry wgreenlee, but I never put anything in the gallery. Don't know why not, but I never do. And since it's under 200k (I always have had the policy of only posting small images in a post -- or otherwise warn for a large image in the thread headline -- but Renderosity got smart and now you can only put an image of 200l or less in a post -- good for them) I just include images in my posts. Ok saxon, maybe it's just too early on the morning Zzz (|-0)=[ But why the "long line? James