I'm getting the distinct feeling that Antonia's joint rework will be a lengthy process with lots of trial and error, dead ends and retries, not unlike the original creation of Antonia's mesh. It'll be fun if I settle into it and give it its time, torture if I get impatient.

I actually went back and changed the orientation of the collar joint again. My first try - working from Antonia WM back then and really just playing around to explore the possibilities - was to have the axis go from the beginning to the end of the actual bone. That wasn't terrible but I felt it produced some issues with the twist, so when I set out to do a serious joint rework, this time with Antonia 1.2 as the basis, I kept the orientation aligned with the regular coordinate axes. Also not great because the twist was moving the shoulder up and down way too much. So now I'm going with the direction of the initial section of the collar bone, which is somewhere in between the two extremes and seems to produce the most natural looking results.

Anyway, here's another snapshot, this time comparing Antonia 1.2 on the left, Antonia WM in the middle, and my current WIP on the right. All three figure have a forward collar twist of 80 degrees, a neck turn of 60 degree, and an upward head bend (negative nod) of 20 degrees.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.