3-DArena posted at 11:57 AM Thu, 29 September 2022 - #4445470

Rhia474 posted at 7:40 PM Mon, 26 September 2022 - #4445330

It is, because it is DAZ that refuses to negotiate.

Actually it originated with Poser - way before Rendo bought it.  The very reason that DAZ Studio was created was because they needed to insure that they could continue forward when Poser began charging an exorbitant amount of money for full compatibility in the software (They realized they were losing out on income generated by content - hence Content Paradise) and then the software sat stagnating for years.  Later the dson convertor was created and offered for free so that DAZ items could work in Poser.

When Poser again was stagnating and studio and DAZ products were advancing that system (dson) didn't work as well and it wasn't really feasible for them to put time and resources into conversion products.  Especially when Studio is free and Poser isn't.  With Poser stagnating or doing bad upgrades (Poser 5??) for as many years as it did, 2 separate times (before the last period when their department was being disassembled/moved and then Rendo bought it), there was no real reason to put the resources into a conversion system for what appeared to be a dying product.

The timeline you state above is very condensed and in some cases correlates things that happened in different times. DAZ Studio 1 was released in 2005. Content Paradise didn't exist until 2009. The creation of DAZ Studio had nothing to do with Content Paradise or the cost of Poser.

Need to remember ... DAZ is primarily a CONTENT site that (at that time) was in need of Software.  Poser is a SOFTWARE company that needs content. Initially it was a perfect union.  When Poser 5 was released in 2003 I think, it was buggy and was not a well-received upgrade. That's what spurred the development of DAZ Studio. 

The future of Poser 5 and beyond was uncertain at the time.No Poser, no potential content sales. From a business standpoint, DAZ needed to create or find another alternative. I'd do the same thing in their shoes.

I didn't use Genesis 1 (didn't really like the unified male/female mesh, to be honest) ... but I don't think DSON was needed until Genesis 2, definitely Genesis 3. The DAZ Studio wikipedia page says that the Genesis 2 platform was launched in 2011.

To add to the complexity of this situation, DAZ came under new ownership in 2009 and the key people that were involved with DAZ Studio and figure development were later let go. Chris Creek and Lisa Buckalew founded Hiveware in 2013, and Dawn and Dusk were released with native support for BOTH DAZ Studio and Poser.

There are still major difference between the products for the 2 softwares.  G9 will likely increase that gap.

From a technical standpoint as relates to Poser, there doesn't seem to be much difference between G8 and G9. Rigging/skeleton between G8 and G9 is very different, which even breaks backward compatility with Genesis 8 from what I can see. But won't know more until G9 is released so this is a guess based on the G9 presentation.

If DAZ isn't working to get or allow the usability across platforms now it's likely due to a longer history of bad blood that began around Poser 5 (iirc) and has gone beyond that now to a case of how their figures work and how they intend for them to work going forward.  No one wants to have their products, particularly a flagship product like their Genesis figures, work less than as intended in order to work in another software.

Looking at this again from a business standpoint, at the time Genesis 2 was released, weight mapping wasn't supported in either Poser or DAZ Studio. That came later in 2011 with both programs (Poser 9 (released in September 2011) and DAZ Studio's Genesis platform support around the same time). I think Genesis 2 was released when DS only had TriAX weight mapping.  Genesis 3 not only used a different method of rigging, but also an entire figure SYSTEM that would not be a trivial task for Poser developers to support.

And that is why we are in the situation we are in.

From a user standpoint, Poser would be at the mercy of having to update Poser software for each Genesis figure release, so Poser support for the latest and greatest would always be behind.

From a development standpoint, the Poser developers would always be playing catch-up to incorporate newer Genesis changes. I don't see that as being a win-win for Poser. For them it would be all cost to support sales of a figure that is only sold at DAZ.

No bad blood, It's reality. Both companies need and want to stay in business. At some point, I think each company had to decide what was best for each to survive independently. 

I tried to reply to this while looking at the timelines for everything involved. There were a lot of underlying circumstances beyond "bad blood" that made this all happen. Unfortunately for all involved, Poser and DAZ Studio users are passionate and vocal. The DS/Poser wars always prove volatile, like political or religious discussions. I have no skin in the game, I have used and supported both.  But I do always try to bring the discussion back to dates and facts. 

Peace, out 8-)