hornet3d posted at 6:31 PM Tue, 2 May 2023 - #4464058

Thalek posted at 5:44 PM Tue, 2 May 2023 - #4464053

I'd like to slip my two credits' worth in.  DOF, like any other tool, depends on your intent.  I have to agree that with the skater, using DOF kind of diminished the old story, but told a new story: skater vs. pinup or portrait.  And as long as we're talking a comparison with movies, watch the editing.  In many movies, they don't blur the background and shift the focus (pun intended) until after you've already seen the background once and know the environment.  It's like the establishing shot in a way, where they show you the outside of the building before shifting to the characters inside one of the offices of that building.  Instead, they've established the environment first before intensifying on the character.

Sometimes, they will deliberately obscure the environment because the reveal is intended to invoke a response.  Such as in The Hunt For Red October, we see Ryan and Ramius close up, and Ramius warns Ryan to be careful where he shoots.  Then they switch to another angle and show that they're in the missile room, with 18 or so nuclear-tipped missiles in their launch tubes. The meaning behind Ramius's warning becomes clear AND emphasized at that point.

DOF is a tool for emphasis.  It's up to each creator to decide when they need to provide emphasis, and when they do not.  And like any tool, it can be under-utilized or over-utilized.  It is my speculation that the choice is more critical for a still because you only have once chance with one image to tell the story you want to tell. In a movie, you can do both if you want to, as the emphasis of the scene shifts dynamically.

I remember an episode of Ironside from the 70s where they used a technique that is a little more common now.  Instead of the traditional two camera set up, where you cut back and forth as the characters talk, they set up an angle where both characters were visible, and changed the DOF to focus on the character who was talking.

That said, all of you are better at this than I am.  I just wanted to point out that both sides have some right on their side for the differing opinions.

I have to agree with what you have said while, at the same time, I can understand where some people will be very frustrated when they see renders that could be improved with DOF.  A lot depends, as you have clearly laid out, the intent behind the render in question and you can mimic the movies if you wish by running a render followed by a close up which is what I was trying to do on the renders I posted here earlier.

The first has some DOF but the detail of the room is still discernible.

With the close up the DOF has bee further reduced.

This does at least prove it is possible with Poser and the more I play with DOF the easier I find it, but that is from someone who has a photographic background so i can see how some might struggle with the concept.  Even here the focus is fairly tight otherwise her face is in focus but parts of her body are not.

I like the way you simulated the appearance of real photographs; doubtless a result of your photography background. The close up image would indeed have a narrower field of focus (unless one used a zoom lens), compared to the more distant shot.

I quite agree that there are many images that can be improved with DOF, and that it must be frustrating to those with a more discerning eye than mine.  But that's the risk we all face when studying another person's work: we all have our own ideas as to how we would have approached it.  I myself rarely have that problem because I'm fortunate enough to be looking at the works of more skilled photographers and Poser users than I am, so if there is anything to criticize, I'm likely to miss it anyway.  [grin]

I merely wanted to point out, perhaps with a little insight as to my reasoning, that both sides were right, depending on circumstances and their specific artistic vision.  (I'm rather proud of one of my first uses of DOF, where the focus was primarily on the character's expression and the PADD he was studying in his hand. I titled it The Bill, and like most of us presented with a bill, he was not happy with it.  The background was a science fiction corridor and largely irrelevant to what I wanted to focus on.  It's in my gallery, if anyone's interested.)