thanks for the offers and advice folks laurie - if its ok, id like to host the freestuff file on your server mike - i can send you a copy and you can put it up, and ill post a link to it here so that if anyone has problems downloading from freestuff or would like to circumvent the traffic they can get it there. just give me a little bit to make the thumbnail and zip it (as opposed to ace) and ill post here with my ICQ #. thanks again for your generosity :)