So true Mike, I played with Atmosphere a lot making tons of avatars for it back in March. At first there were some really great developers of Adobe to talk with as well as software developers, where we had decent intelligent conversation. But it degraded to a dumbed down level. The developers lost interest and and there was a flood of worldwide clueless newbies. New people would pour in, and circle around have childish conversations then do nothing but ask me, "Oooh can I have that avatar", "Will you make me a ..." It was fun at first but after a while the joy was gone. I was hoping more would come of it. Michael