don't get me wrong, i don't have nothing against "pure" poser renders, but, as you see in the picture, there are some troubles that just can't be fixed (except in tedious post work, which is basicaly the same as rendering somewhere else), like the unability of poser to render shadows of objects that are close to others (hair stops to throw shadows on the face). if this don't bother people, that's fine with me. but it bothers me! :-) i've seen some really stunning images by syyd or, latest by blackhearted, and they are great! i still didn't post anything, because i feel that i still have to learn! ronstuff, i didn't mean "image" as compendium of pixels, but as an idea behind it. why did you make that image, what are you trying to say with it and so on... if, by any chance, however tiny it may be :o), curious labs license the engine of, say, bryce or max, for poser 5, what happens then? would the images made with p4 and rendered in max still be accepted as "pure poser"? what is "equal footing"? no vicky (not every poser fan can aford her), no extra clothes, no commercial textures, no custom morphs made with other apps? that would be boring! no, if the image has an focus (idea) on poser figures, or tells the story with them, then it belongs (just my opinion!) to poser gallery. surely, if i make some sf-spaceship in max and render it, where poser figure could be seen as tiny something in the window, than it has to go to max gallery...