Hi, My $0.02: It seems to me there are two camps here, (and elsewhere in the wider world) there are the professionals, people who understand composition, lighting, mood, etc. Classically trained & educated people who can actually draw, (often with graphics tablets to hand) that like to opine that any idiot can render, and that the artistry comes from the initial idea/design, then patching it up afterwards. That the rendering process simply makes the donkey work of creating original works of art easier. Then there are the people, (like me) who use photoshop to entertain small children, (makes a great 'etch a sketch' :) because they couldn't "colour thier way out of a paper bag" even after reading "learn photoshop in 24hrs" and "photoshop for dummies" etc. It's a great program, but I'm not a great artist, I'm not even a crap one... :) I spend hours trying to get poser to produce something that looks as lifelike, (and desirable ;) as possible, without recourse to postwork, simply because, having tried, I know the results always look "touched up" and frequently a worked image looks worse than the straight render they started off as. You can see this in action on a far higher level in the current issue of 3Dworld mag, where some very famous bloke I've never heard of :) opines that there are perhaps only 6 (or so) true "digital artisits" in the world, and the rest of us are just muppets, (to use the vernacular :) One of you lot has written in (enclosing a poser rendered image) citing renderosity as evidence to the contrary, compaining about this elitist attitude. I believe the same war has been raging between "real" artists and photographers since the advent of the camera. I'm happy to be a muppet, humbled as I am occasionally by what I consider to be art when I find it in the galleries, here or elsewhere. I've even been lucky enough to get a few comments from the few images I've put up here. Though it must be said that the single most commented image I've ever posted was one that was actually professionally "worked over" (litterally :) by a mate of mine, who is good with photoshop, over a picture of me that I left "exposed" online, (and subsequently posted to the users gallery at 3dcommune) so there you go, "talent will out" as they say :) I personally don't think it will matter what new forums/galleries you try to set up, most people will still simply click "what's new" in the galleries and look for the T&A shots just as they do now, (God bless 'em :) later jb