And finally... This is what happens when you turn inverse kinematics off on the boots, (by selecting the boot heel) which makes maters a little better, but it's still a pain. In the end I gave up with trying to conform them and moved them as close as I could manually then turned off the shin the foot and the toe and parented the thigh of the boot to vickies thigh. Anyone with a better solution will be thanked profusely! :) later jb