There are two ways to determine the orientation of a facet - using it's precalculated vertex normals or looking at it's winding order. Normals are useful if you plan on importing your models into anything other than Poser. Having normals included with the model won't change the way Poser interprets it but it does save space if you remove them. If you're using UVMapper, you already have a way of removing normals - simply uncheck the "export normals" option when exporting the model. I wouldn't simply remove the vn lines using a text editor since they will still be referenced in the facet data. RayDream does do some strange things to models - especially if you're using the boolean function. It tends to get confused and reverses the winding order of some facets causing Poser to think they're facing the other way (althouth I don't think that's what's happening here.) Char - if you'd like me to have a pass at mapping the obj, please feel free to send along the obj file (I promise not to use it for anything other than mapping it for you.) If not, no problem - just thought I'd offer =) Steve stevecox@optonline.net