CR2Edit does save a backup of the original when mashing, in case there is more work to be done in the modeler. I had skipped taking the normal refs out of the f lines for fear of the performance hit in processing, since Poser doesn't care if they are there. But I just tried putting in code for that and the hit is minimal, so the next update will include this, meaning the files will be yet smaller. With the growing size of Poser files and the attendant problems with rendering them, it seems important that anything not needed should be chopped out. The whole winding order thing is a puzzle to me, I read over the info on it and still can't grasp how this gets figured, I'm glad there is UVMapper so that I don't have to deal with it! regards, Dan http://www.zenwareonline.com/cr2edit/cr2edit.html Sorry Win only for software http://www.zenwareonline.com for ZenPaint, ZenTile, ZenGrid and VueMaster