When I got into Poser, everybody only had positive things to say about it. And while it's manual was written by someone on some serious drugs over a long and incoherent period, it is still a great program, and it's demo is fairly easy to comprehend and use. Studio Max is about the same; a nice demo, with easy to understand menu's and controls. A bit pricey if you ask me, but nice to work with. Truespace, and Lightwave are likewise easy to use demos, with menus that are easy to understand and follow. Terregen's "demo" or "shareware?", while quite limited, is a very easy program to use. I may be wrong, but it's always been my understanding that a demo is made in order to help convince people to purchase the full version. Which usually means that they show you what it can do, and how easy it is to do it. The Bryce 5 Trial version seems to be designed to get previous users of the Bryce programs to upgrade, not to convince newcomers into purchasing it. And, as I'm sure you'll agree, if I didn't think Bryce was at least worth a "Look-see," I never would have spent 8 hours to download the trial version. I've seen the results, it's a great program, in the right hands. But since you, yourself, mention the LOOooonnnngggg rendering times, and 2 years of reading the Manual, would you say that it's really a newcomer's program? Sincerly, Warzog