hi show the screen with the abdomen selected and the joint editor open so we can see the window...show all 3 planes of rotation and center as well. off hand, if the dials are not reversed...it could be: the rotational order is wrong (ie twist isnt twist) you have 'spherical falloff' checked but not set the center of rotation is not in the center or could be a gremlin ;) anyhow..if the above things arent it, can you give a screen shot of the things I asked for? thanx BT