storm, good head on your shoulders. seen this before from other software companies. it works. they bring folks on the margin into the fold and make some cash to boot. welcome site, i respect your posts but one comment- loyal users? here? only if they give you exactly what YOU want and nothing else. to no one specific, this is the pickiest, whiniest, bitchiest, little bunch of pig piling bandwagoneering ijiots i've run across. some exceptions here and there of course. you'll all run to the next release. everything they share here about poser5 sounds friggin amazing. mm