X-perimental Man, my copy of the Poser 4 Upgrade was exactly the same as the full-price version that I saw in stores. It was completely stand-alone... it even came with a brand-new serial number. I had to provide my Poser 3 serial number when I ordered it to get the upgrade price, but that was it. So either you or I are confused here... the Poser 4 upgrade, from my personal experience, is no different than the full version. The only difference is that it's cheaper and that the upgrade versions usually check to make sure you have a previous version of the software installed on your computer. But I can tell you that I got all of the same manuals, the box, the CD of extra goodies, all the bells and whistles that a first-time purchaser got. If anyone else who upgraded got something different, then speak up. I guess it could be so, since I got my Poser 4 from MetaCreations not Curious Labs, but I'd be surprised as hell to hear it. Anything else wouldn't make sense. Why would a company short a loyal customer by giving them a stripped-down version of the next release of the product? They don't... they just give the previous purchaser a break on the price, not a different (lesser) version. -nemo