Loagan you are correct! I agree that having poly's only where you need them is a major importance and i agree for a standard detailed character, i think you hit the nail on the head saying around 5000 to 10000 my characters are around 5600 to 7000 with no close but that includes polys used for detailed eyelashes teeth gums etc hands and face tend to take up around 2000 so the body is usually only 3300 or so clothed they ususlay jump toaround 8700 with weopons clothes, however i have done some around 20,000 but theseare film res models where the body looks like the frozen state in lw all polys being equal in size Logan gave me the oprutunity to play with one of his models and i think that the lower poly work he has achieved surpasses people ive worked with so i wanted to syay good job to him! the reason i brought this topic up however is there seems to be alot of users that think high poly modeling is bad and that you should sacrifice detail for low poly without cause . one instance is people making models for digital sculpture if your not going to animate it but your looking for a detailed look go for it take the 20 minutes render time its going to take in the long run its worth it logan band saw is definetly one of lw's most powerful tools you can use it even if its only on one poly the way you do this is select the polys you want to slice and flip their normals, band saw will slice only these polys giving you all the control ! you will love it once you try theres virtually no stopping control of your mesh combined with merge and add point