ImagineThat, >>>Its to bad some of the people here took it so personal and emotional instead of looking at it objectivly from CL's stand point. So you think Creative is supporting piracy? How so?<<< Personal? Not at all. Emotional? Perhaps. Objectively? A simple reality, they openly included pirates in their offer. Objectively speaking, that is ineffective and stupid. >>>They are dropping the price no matter what, for everyone.<<< As most of us on this side of the issue have stated, we could care less what price they dropped it to for legitimate users, for legitimate buyers. But when you openly embrace the criminal element, then we part company. Why is that so hard to comprehend? >>>Will it stop piracy? Hell no! Will it change anything? Hell no! Will tons of pirates say "gee I've been a bad boy and need to amend my evil ways"? Hell no! But maybe a couple of the smarter ones will realize how nice it is to have a "real" copy of poser.<<< The smarter ones already know they dont need a real copy. >>>One that includes a manual. One that includes tech support.<<< A manual? Many of the pirated versions are archived with the PDF version of the manual. Or you can find the PDF version available separately. Or, how about this? Download the manual from the CL website! Yep, there it is in all its PDF glory. I have never used CL tech support. I have never failed to find the help I need right here on Renderosity. And the pirates know that, too. Why? Because a number of them visit and post here often and regularly. >>>One that will provide a cheaper upgrade on a new version when it comes out instead of trying to pirate that one.<<< You just do not understand the criminal, pirate mind at all, do you? >>>I don't see how this is hurting anyone. Some of you who state you have supported CL against piracy, how have you done that financially? You bought Poser cause you wanted to use it, not for CL's sake.<<< Actually, I bought TWO copies. One for me and one for my son. And by BUYING them instead of pirating them I DID support CL against piracy. Again, a simple reality. But your attitude is the same attitude that I have detected from a few of the CL folks here WE, the honest, paying customers simply are not doing enough. Were just complainers. We fork over several hundred dollars and actually think that gives us a right to actually say anything about anything the company might do. Silly us. >>>Sure its great to turn someone in that talks about it on the forums but that doesn't cost you anything. It costs CL lost revenue every time one of their programs gets ripped off. Why not try and recover that. Its fine to stand on your soapbox with your all-might morals and shake your fist but how is any of this coming out of your pocket?<<< My morals are based on the premise that you do not appease criminals. I am sorry that reality differs with your morals and CLs. You want to recover losses from piracy? Bust them. Prosecute them. Humiliate them. Destroy them. >>>You really want to support CL's against piracy, donate some more money to them to help pay for better anti-piracy technology.<<< There is not a piece of anti-piracy technology out there that I know of that has not been defeated. Microsofts XP technology was supposed to be unbreakable. Cracked versions were all over the net before the official copies were even sold. >>>The gripe from legitimate customers and also pirates since the beginning of computers is that software is too expensive. So a company lowers it so everyone, the good and bad, can afford it and gets skewered in the forums.<<< Because that philosophy is and has been proven to be false. My god, these bandits crack programs that cost less than $15! It isnt a matter of being able to afford it or not! >>>Why not, it doesn't really affect your life, it just feels good to get upset and spout off about it.<<< Okay, since you seem to want to make assumptions, let me inform you of another reality. Every time a company capitulates to the criminals ALL of us lose. I lose, you lose, my clients lose. Oh, by the way, MY clients hire people like me to fight crackers, hackers and pirates. THAT is how it affects my life. And how good does it make you feel to spout off about those of us who have been fighting these criminals for years!? Does it make you feel big? Good, Im happy for ya. >>>How is this costing you anything? The program is going to drop in price anyway. This is not going to make piracy any bigger than it is. Why would it?<<< No, it will not make piracy any bigger. And it sure as heck isnt going to make it any smaller. The bottom line is something no one seems to want to even think about principle. The principle of capitulating, of making a deal with criminals who are, at this very moment, laughing behind your back. Check the underground. >>>Why not try and recover some lost revenue by these people?<<< Wont happen. >>>In America we try to reform criminals all the time. Why is this any different?<<< When you can show me you have ANY understanding of the cracker or pirate mind, we will revisit this subject. Right now, I cannot, for moral reasons, debate an unarmed opponent. >>>You want to stop piracy, get off your butt and join a law enforcement agency and go fight crime instead of talking about it.<<< Listen, Mister (My apologies if you are not a male), a number of us who have been speaking on this DO fight piracy and DO fight crime. Many do it full-time. I am now only part-time. Sorry, health reasons have forced me to cut back my activities. I apologize if this somehow disqualifies me from doing MY part. Now, get off your ass and follow your own advice. Since we're wrong, show us how it should be done. >>>Im sure this is just going to irritate those that already are but try and look at it from a business stand point and not an emotional one. Think of CL and how they would like to make some money so they can continue to make future programs.<<< I AM looking at it from a business standpoint and have done so from the very beginning. And from the business standpoint it was an incredibly stupid move from both a principle and a PR end. You really want to lower piracy? Then quit pussy-footing around! Go after the criminals. Bust them. Prosecute them. Humiliate them. Destroy them. One by one. It means going after webhosts, website operators, ptp operators, ISPs, etc. And it means publicizing your fight and using the media to its full potential. Will that rid the world of this infestation? No. Hell, if theyre in China, India or Israel you can forget it. But as more and more stories of pirates getting busted, being prosecuted, losing their jobs, losing their businesses and losing what property they have for restitution payments start rolling around you will get more who back off than you would if you kiss their ass. Cant afford to hire the necessary bounty hunters or investigative people? Form a coalition with other small software companies and pool your resources and hire a firm together. It is done every day. Hell, youve got SHAREWARE companies forming anti-piracy coalitions! If they can do it, surely CL can ally itself with other similarly sized companies. The question is Do you really want to fight? Or simply pretend? Okay, folks, you win. I promise that this is the last post I will make in this thread. All I seem to be doing is repeating the same thing over and over again. The only thing that changes is the person twisting this side of the argument. CL has made its decision. It is done. I wash my hands of it. Anyway, Im still trying to settle the zip or fasten dilemma. Take care and be well. casamerica