Actually he doesn't make this point at all. You do. It was the implied point, friend. Anyone familiar with RWB and the WOW books knows this is the inherent difference between the two, stylistically, and you would be hardpressed to say otherwise, sorry. We're always looking for the next book that will magically transform us into gurus of program X If thats your goal, then so be it. But I see books like these as on par with the manuals I have for my truck. If I need to fix the brake line, I want a point by point discussion on how to do so with a minimum of fuss. A book wont make me or anyone else in a "guru" -- Mr. Mortier is certainly a shining example of that -- but if it answers questions I have about how to do something, then its usefullness cant be faulted. Anything else... well, I think most of us know it has to come out of talent. Otherwise, youre just strolling. Now, as to your other point, youll get no argument from me on that score. But this is a Bryce forum, not a theoretical art forum. Thats not to say we should be limiting the scope of the discussions, but lets remember our priorities, okay? If you feel a discussion like that is merited, then start the thread and see who jumps in. But dont fault those who focus the discussion on nuts-and-bolts computer books when that was how the thread started in the first place.