Thanks for the help I've gone as far as opening 3ds max and closing it after about 30 mins. Rhino I've tried for a bit but no beans. I haven't tried True Space or Carrara yet, but they all seem to be just a bit over my head. I was really hoping that Bryce would export .obj boy was I sadly mistaken, I don't know it that well but I can at least make something half decent with it, is there anything with an interface similar to that. Thanks again for all your help.