Ok ron I have Ver 6 and you can download the demo of the program from the site. Remember that I am ok with the program and the master of these programs are as follow: Truespace: Phil C Rhino: Xurge Amapi: Dolly Sorry if I left anyone out or any programs, but I can't keep all of you in my head. The three listed are people who I speak too all the time.LOL So grab the program and then do what I did burn the midnight oil, read all that you can get your screen to load and bug the hell out of one of these three ( Just kidding or am i? ).LOL Naw they are great and the guys in the forums ( some of them) will go out of there way to help you or at the very lease will give you a link that will show you a step by step how to get what you want out of the programs. Oh and I have lightwave, tried it twice. I just did not like the inter face of it and then all the tools got me all confused. But it is a good program when you want to add something to and obj. Thanks the John Hoagland, I figured out how to add a cape to this chest armor that Xurge helped me make. So its not all bad just ugly.LOL