Hmm... I've seen that, and wondered why people prolong the hip all the way to the floor. So that's the reason. Hmm.... Then of course I get your point how a horizontal hip wouldn't work. I've read - and read again all the stuff I could find about ERC. I find it VERY difficult to understand theoretically. Maybe if I do some practicall erroring! lol I've got CR2edit and am trying to learn that parallel to learning Amapi, Poser, Bryce, UV-mapper... g I guess I just need to be more Patient (argh... I hate that P-word!!) But... to follow the prop thought.... how would I model that, - and how would it be posed?? Liam... Thanks a bunch! I don't have MAX... :( I do understand that it prolly can make things more easy, but for now (at least!) I'm working with Amapi 6.1... and getting to like that program.. A LOT. :) Britt