well thanx guys trav thanx for the links..didnt learn much from them tho other than who one of the folks from final fantasy is. (I loved the graphics in that movie..story sucked, but graphics were great) They needed to work on the top lip movement while the characters talked, but hell...dont think anyone I know coulda done better :P Seems to me like one of the 'big' movies used nurbs models instead of polys? Shrek maybe? I think I'll stick to subdivision and polys...I have no need yet for nurbs surfaces. I can make critters like the ones above in < hour..so good 'nuff for me :) thanx BT