ok i'll try and write normal this time if it makez you happy, lol i was in a rush last time. in the meterial drop down bit in the pic what iz the difference between mid_U and mid_L ? and the same with the otherz. also i have texture mapz and transparent mapz for mid and out layerz but only a transparent map for the in layer, i downloaded them so i dont know if thatz right? ive tryed what you have all said and it has helped but still lookz a bit weird :-S thanx for your time