Cool! I am gonna be lost in that tips archive for awhile - I was hoping you guys had something like that ; ) I have all the volumetric settings correct, but I will try blowing the intensity way out and adding some dust too. The reason I didn't add dust was I thought the fog and haze particles were taking care of that already. I'm not worried about Steve - I know he is working on it. As far as being patient, we Mac people are just happy to finally have Vue to play with. In our apps (until recently in Bryce5) we always had to build plants from scratch or fake them with alpha planes, etc. I like Vue's ability to grow plants - that's for sure. Even the terrain editor lets you do cooler things. The fluvial setting not only cut streams into the mountainside, they also really pile up the deposits at the base of mountains and create realistic looking alluvial fans. That is a nice touch being able to set the hardness and softness of the rock. Also I am enjoying playing with the underlying functions in the materials - I think there may be more horsepower in this than what I can do in the Bryce Deep Texture Editor. Overall at version 4, Vue really has a lot of depth to it, and I am excited about plumbing those depths. I have a feeling I will get the volumetrics working now with the tips you guys gave. I'll post a test image soon if I can get it working right. thanks for all your help.