I like frames. It helps with navigation. It helps keep things organized. My browser doesn't take up my whole screen... or my computer... unless it crashes. ;^) Until I make a website which is a long step BETTER than anything out here, I'm not going to pull down someone else's hard work... and even then I probably wouldn't be as small-minded as to criticize a choice of formats. Ron, if you can't appreciate sites which offer free stuff of high quality, even if it takes you a couple more clicks, why don't you simply stay out of them and not bother us with your laziness or your complaints? Unless you are a mindless moth, you are not compelled to go back to a site which makes you uncomfortable. Carolly