Hey, I'll play the semantics game, LOL! What do all the tools in PhotoShop control? Text! Open a graphics file in the Manual Editor and take a peek, and if you know what you are doing you can change values to change the picture. The first 2 characters of a TIF file, for example, tell you if it is a Mac or Intel file (ASCII MM or II), the next byte is ASCI 42, which means this is a TIF. Change that by even one digit and you have just destroyed the picture. You can even find all kinds of actual words in a graphics file, a TIF can have everything from the computer name, user name, time created, time modified, printers attached to system -- the TIF format spec sheet is 600 pages.... Anyway, CR2Edit is intended to make a text editor a tool only for Discoverers and masochists. I can manipulate a graphics file in the manual editor, but what's the point?(unless I'm trying to find a new way to manipulate them in one of my graphics apps) That's what paint programs are for. The other thread: good thing it is buried now, or you'd have to lock it cuz it was so OT, LOL! But I'll keep an eye on it, so if you get stuck just put up a message, I'm a teacher at heart. cheers, Dan http://www.zenwareonline.com for CR2Edit, ZenPaint, ZenTile, VueMaster and the complete line of Zenware graphics apps