Ron You can pick it up at all sorts of places. For instance I found the initial link to the Media Player 8 stuff on an AMD technical forum. If you look at tech forums, security sites and forums and also Pirate BBs (I am not into warez for the record) you will find lots. The Pirate BBs are particularly good for stuff on privacy and spyware, wonder why? ;0) The whole Aureate spyware scandal (about 2 years ago) that kicked off public awareness that spyware was being included in demo applications started from a number of Pirate BBs and was picked up by security forums. Recently the FBI launched a major attack on a number of Warez groups (DOD and others). This marked a new departure under the Bush Presidency. However, since the wars in former Jugoslavia (when Serbian hackers took down the N.A.T.O European Headquarters site and communications and attacked the Pentagon site and others during the bombing) and also following on recent experiences in the war against the Taliban, there has been an increased emphasis on Cyber Warefare. I would be willing to bet that some of the vast new defense spending funds that Bush is seeking will be spent on cyber warfare. Add that to existing projects like Echelon and others..... Microsoft and the world-wide penetration of it's product would be an ideal intelligence vehical for data gathering. I am not saying it is happening, but if I were in the CIA/FBI, I would be seeking to use such a vehical as part of my intelligence arsenal. mmmm.... Bill could go from bad boy of the US courts to most favoured person! STORM