Kieraw, With or without the ciopinna? :) Ya see, my SCA persona is a courtesan in Venice in 1453. So I know way too much about that period. Gosh, that's almost too easy:) BTW somone has a set of female poses from classic painintg in the market - with a bodymorph. Forget the makers name though :( About gravity and breasts - it happens. We all try not to mention it, but as an artist, yeah I notice. I know what Ron was trying to say, but words can be such clumsy things :) And Ron, if you haven't hung out in bars looking for women, you've missed one of the great all american pastimes :) Littledragon - even if she lost it, I still have a copy. I'm struggling with the dratted transmap and Xenofex's fur filter (wheee!) We'll get there. Enough for now, gotta get to the office joy Lyrra