I wonder what exactly TheWanderer has crawling around on the ocean floor... I second Carrera http://www.eovia.com/! It was origionally written by the former owners of Poser(3), where it stood as The Hybrid modeler! Carrera's original programming(And USER INTERFACE...) is developed from that of Meatcareation's; Poser3, Ray Dream Studio, and Infini-D! I have a PDF lying around hear somewhere, written by Metacreations, about how to bring Poser3 Figures into Ray Dream Studio, and create .obj MORPH TARGETS, from the Metacreation Poser3...Meshes. Owners of Ray Dream Studio,like myself, are invited, by Eovia, to purchase the Careera Upgrade package instead of the full retail product. I 'm pretty sure there are at least a couple desent plugins available for RDS5. There is one to import Poser and/or Bryce, but you'll need to ask Eovia about importing physics programming, when getting into Carrera this way. The Ray Dram Studio 5 manual has mention of Poser. I'll gladly sell my registered copy of RDS5 if you want to get into Carrera cheaper than buying Retail(I need money the money!) I'll even; help you shop for an inexpensive upgrade, toss in my $50 Training CD, hand over my manual, and throw in whatever else I can find on Ray Dream/Poser, for $100. The disks themselves are in my CD book binder and in fine condition. I chuked the jewels a while ago... The current owners of Poser(Nor any other owners of Poser todate.) have'nt developed any of thier own Modelers(WHilst they've had thier hands on Poser,) that have done near the business of Metacreation's software(At least to my knowledge.) I believe the next step up from Carerra's class of Primative Modeler Render Engine Beast is Hollywood's production $2,000-$10,000 caliber, ruled by Rhino, Maya, 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, and Softimage. Have a good look at which of the apps. in the Software Forum are actually Modelers, this is the type of application. you should be looking for the edit meshes at primative levels. Carrera has the Modeler UI most as friendly as Poser and Bryce(The only other Metacreation UIs supported by this site.) What happened was that Metacreations sold thier entire product line to go into a HTML plugin business. Since then my stock in MC has gone belly up, but they sure as Hell put the nicest UIs I've ever seen onto the market. My guess is the learning curve, dirived there from, is an equal value. Though I ca'nt say for sure, the running joke is that the dollar for dollar differance between this application and it's thousand dollar bretheren is its predacesors render engines. Allhough I've seen some MC renders that rival photographic detail! }|> )