OOhh now we are cookin! thanks judith, that MBF is going on my list of 'to get' when i get a moment. i like some of those styles that he's got. the bubbles in particular look fasinating to play with. cain, thanks for the links... you beat me to it... i had them all bookmarked but have since had to reinstall so i lost my huge collection :( forgot to save them. elenyte! hey, welcome! glad to see you here. yup, paul's got some good stuff on his site.