Freakachu: I don't deny you your point of view, but even in your message you bring out what we need to stop doing. You make the distinction that most of the people on the renderosity-side are speaking from personal experience rather than - I can only assume from how you said it - the 'misguided' outrage of those on the PFO-side. Where does that put people like me? I joined the PFO back at the same time I joined the Bryce forum on Delphi. I think it was probably at the iguanasoft URL then. I have been on Willow's bad side a few times, twice in two of the biggest blowouts I've seen (with the exception of this one) on the forum over censorship. I made my feelings strongly known, respectfully, and I was treated respectfully by Willow in public (messages and IRC) and in e-mail. When the PFO/Edgenet split occured, I went with them. When I decided to come back to the forums (posting and not just lurking and watching), I went back there first. I doubt I'm some special case here. Whatever my position and thoughts on what has happened, shouldn't we be thinking about the "poser community" - as so many people have pointed out - and let go of the personal injuries and jibes that people keep bringing up on both sides? -=>Donald