very true DHolm, a consistent traffic like the one we have here is QUITE irregular. ::smiles:: as my own "old school" Trek comes out. I, personally, value your opinions as i do value ALL opinions. As my partner and best friend jack, and so many others have said, i may not agree, but i will STAND BY your right to voice them. This verbal battle, like so many in the past is part of a very sensitive, changing phase. Being a community of artists, such scenarios grow very Passionate. For we ARE Passion's Children :) We fight, we make up, we fight again. And WE ALL defend and come together when threatened or in need of help. Both here at Renderosity and at PFO. There is a great, fierce pride running through both, which does this artist's Soul good. It may not be of a constructive nature, but conflict is a part of life. You know, that ole ying-yang, bing-bang rigamaroll....?? lol To address the original thread, "are we this jaded?" Yes. WE ALL ARE! WE are angels, ALL. WE are devils, ALL. WE are Human. ALL! WE... Are Artists. WE are of Passion and Creation. These are NOT quiet, docile vehicles. But, what of maturity, you ask?? That comes with experience. And my fellow passionate folk, we izz got dat here, right now!! LOL Here's an odd thing... all great art was created due to some conflict or personal struggle by the artist. Be it a broken art, or whatever. Passion FEEDS Art. I'm sure this time next week, all those that have posted here will kick out some of their best, original, and intriguing work, from actively joining in these threads. AND FOR THE RECORD..... This personal conflict between the Hatfields and the McCoys should be BETWEEN the Hatfields and the McCoys. Our neighbors and guests shouldn't be Told to pick up a gun and start afirin'! Excuse the french, but THAT is fuckin' bullshit. Plain and simple. ed edarsenal@aol.com 2D Admin & Bartender at the Virtual Tavern