You know seeing threads like this makes it all worth while :o) thanks folks i'm almost lost for words :o).....just a note to serpentis if i recall correctly the only section that covers 3rd party stuff is mappacks everything else you don't need extras to use, with the exception of the shirt from mikes clo pack to run the cowboy, but hes getting remake soon anyway :o).....at least thats all i can recall at the moment if anyone else remember ones i missed just shout :o).......Steve