I think the idea of non-transmapped hair is great, many things currently can't be done because you can't have highlights without messing up the transmaps, and I also thing 65,000 polygons is do-able, especially for the newer, faster computers. **************************************************** I do have some basis for the statement I made about about render times, incidently, here is the times reported on the test file I have in Freestuff. I'm sue the forum software is going to mess up the formatting, but hopefully you will be able to read it. Macs are great computers, but not the fasest on Poser renders. I'm not trying to bash Macs, just trying to say don't be put off by the 28 minutes! The results, as reported by various members of the Renderosity forum: CPU, Speed, Amount of RAM, Operating System, time AMD 2000XP 1G RAM Win 2K 024 seconds AMD 1800 Mhz 1GB Ram Win XP 035 seconds AMD 1800+ Athlon 512 Mb RAM Win XP Home 037 seconds AMD XP 1800+, 1GB DDR RAM, WinXP 044 seconds AMD 1.4 Ghz Athlon, 768 Mb RAM, Win 2000K - 044 seconds. AMD 1.4 Ghz Athlon 768 Mb RAM, Win 98 048 seconds AMD 1.3 GHz 256meg RAM Win 98 048 seconds Pentium 4 1.7Ghz 384RDRAM WinME 063 seconds Pentium 4 1.9 Ghz 1Gb RAM Win XP 057 seconds Pentium 4 1.7 GHz, 256 MB RAM, 067 seconds AMD XP 1800+ 1 GB DDR Windows 2000 Pro 068 seconds Pentium 3 1 Ghz 256Mb Ram, Win 98, 070 seconds. AMD 1700+ (Dual) 1Gb DDR Win XP Pro 073 seconds Pentium 3 850 Ghz 512 Mb RAM Win 98se 081 seconds Pentium 3 1GHz, 512 MB RAM, Windows XP Home 081 seconds. AMD 800 Mhz Athlon 768Mb Ram Win XP Pro 085 seconds Pentium 4 1.0 Ghz ? ? 090 seconds Pentium Celeron 600 Mhz 256 Mb RAM Win 2000 Pro 095 seconds Celeron 700mhz 128 MB RAM Win XP 105 seconds AMD 1.0 Ghz Athlon 768Mb RAM Win XP Pro 106 seconds AMD 1..0 Ghz Athelon 512 MB RAM Win98SE 107 seconds AMD 1Gb Athlon, 256Mb Ram, Win 98. 108 seconds AMD ? K6 146 Mb RAM 115 seconds Pentium 3 800MHz, 128MB RAM, Win98 134 seconds Pentium III 500Mhz, 384mb RAM, Win98SE 165 seconds Pentium 3- 525Mhz 256 Mb RAM, Win 98 178 seconds Mac G3-500 Mhz 768 Mb RAM ? 215 seconds Mac G3-400 Mhz 256 Mb RAM O.S. 9.0.4, 343 seconds Mac G4 500 Mhz 832 Mb RAM O,S. 9.2.2 476 seconds iMac G3 233Mhz/ 160mb RAM OS9.2 615 seconds