Yeah, I think I have seen that sort of thing before. I save all of my characters as faces, check 'em in a text editor (you can use MM for that if you prefer) to insure no expression stuff is saved. This file can be used to always restore the characteristics of the face. It is especially useful if you are using stuff you get from the free stuff. Of course, jaagers way is the best solution in the long run. I also agree that you should complain the DAZ. That should be caught during testing. eric