Im not a expert with the Poser Grouper, but I read bloodsongs tut about fixing normals and I basically did like leather-guy suggested - no fix - In any case it took me longer to play with the grouper than to reconstruct the problem areas with a different approach (no use of booleans)like thgeisel suggested. I try to avoid it now - just would have been nice to use it some times... At one time I got so frustrated that I downloaded the trial version of Rhino and started digging through the interface. Maybe its the kick in the ass I needed to learn Rhino whick is I think a better choice for modelling for Poser Thank you all for your response! kelc